‘I’m eloquent, but I like swearing too – I’m an eloquent gobshite’

Damon Minchella

 

Former Ocean Colour Scene bassist and founding member, Damon Minchella, has a ton of great stories to tell, so he’s written his autobiography, You’d Look Good On A Donkey: Britpop, Basslines & Bad(ish) Decisions.

It’s a fun read. In his friendly and chatty style – imagine he’s telling you his rock ‘n’ roll tales over a pint in the pub – he shares anecdotes of ‘90s indie-rock excess, including a close call with the drug squad, and telling Paul McCartney one of his guitar solos was shit!

Minchella, who left Ocean Colour Scene in the early 2000s, is extremely honest about his time with the group – he reveals the highs and the lows – and he also recounts when Leonard Cohen told him to fuck off, reminisces about his time with Paul Weller, shares his memories of playing with The Who at Live 8, and supporting Oasis on their 2025 world tour, as part of Richard Ashcroft’s band.

‘He shares anecdotes of ‘90s indie-rock excess, including a close call with the drug squad, and telling Paul McCartney one of his guitar solos was shit!’

Born and bred on Merseyside, Minchella now divides his time between Wales and Italy. Say It With Garage Flowers spoke to him earlier this month to find out why he decided to write his memoir, and we got him to tell us some of his amusing stories and reflect on his career.

“I’ve never been arsed what people think of me,” he says. “Apart from my closest friends and family, I don’t give a flying fuck what people think. I don’t care – it’s not a book about making friends…”

Q&A

I enjoyed your book – it’s a fun read. Why did you decide it was time to write an autobiography?

Damon Minchella: It was my wife’s fault, to honest. We would be out walking the dogs or in the pub with some friends, and I would just remember a story that I’d never told her. It kept on happening and she said was like, ‘You’ve got to write your book before you forget it all…’

So, there was that, and I was in Italy for an extended period, doing my citizenship and getting my passport – I had to be there for a specific amount of time, with nothing really to do, so, I thought: ‘I’ll just write – I’ll start and see what happens…’

So, I started it, and it was like, ‘bang!’ All these things just came out… The process of writing just released loads of memories, but not in a linear fashion, obviously…

I want to talk about that because you haven’t approached the book in the traditional way. It doesn’t start at the beginning, with when and where you were born, etc. It begins with Leonard Cohen telling you to fuck off, in a hotel in New York, in the early 2000s…

Yeah – as soon as I started writing, that was the first thing I wrote – ‘Once upon a time, Leonard Cohen told me to fuck off….’ and I thought, ‘Oh – that’s good, I’ll have that as the start.’ And then I started thinking of chapter titles… It’s a bit like writing a song – if you come up with a good title, then that kind of informs what it might be about.

All the chapter titles were sort of random memories, so I started putting them in some sort of order, that wasn’t chronological, and then I just wrote the book from there. After about three months, I had to come back to Wales for a couple of weeks, and I was in and out doing gigs with Richard [Ashcroft]… I thought, ‘Well – I’ve got half the book done already…’ So, then I finished it off.

Are you a natural writer? Does it come easily to you?

Yeah – I think so. It’s because I read a lot as well – I’m an obsessive reader. Obviously writing a book is different from reading what someone else has written, but I like to think I’m reasonably eloquent, but I like swearing as well. So, it’s a nice collision – I’m an eloquent gobshite.

Your writing style is very chatty – it’s as if you’re telling the stories to someone over a pint in the pub. Going back to Leonard Cohen – you started to speak to him when he was sat in a hotel dining room…

And he immediately told me to fuck off – before I’d even finished the sentence. As I say in the book, a lot of people might’ve been offended by that, but I thought it was genius. I wanted Leonard Cohen to be Leonard Cohen, and he nailed it…

Kim Gordon from Sonic Youth told you to fuck off too, didn’t she?

Yeah – weirdly, they were supporting us [Ocean Colour Scene], which was wrong – we should’ve been supporting them… It was an outdoor gig, and I was in the portacabin dressing room. She walked past and I just went: ‘Kim!’ She went, ‘Fuck off!’ and carried on walking – she didn’t even break her stride. That’s what I wanted from her.

That’s pretty cool. How are you when people who aren’t famous recognise you and ask for an autograph or a chat etc?

If people want to come up and talk to you because they like your music, to be rude to them is terrible. I was having dinner with Chad Smith from the Chili Peppers once, who’s a lovely fella. Dustin Hoffman was sitting at the table next to us – someone wanted his autograph, but he was so fucking rude to them… Those people are why you’ve got a nice house…

You did once tell Paul McCartney one of his guitar solos was shit! It’s mentioned in the book… It was in Studio Two at Abbey Road, when he, Paul Weller and Noel Gallager were recording a version of Come Together, as The Smokin’ Mojo Filters, for The Help Album – for War Child – in 1995. You were joking, but how did he take it? Did he see the funny side?

He did – after the initial shock. He’s not used to anybody around him saying anything apart from: ‘Yes, Paul, no Paul, three bags full, Paul…’

What were you thinking?

I just thought, ‘I’ve got to say it…’ I do have social airs and graces, but I also have the ability to go, ‘Oh, come on!’

Your family has a link to The Beatles – your mum went to school with George Harrison, and your dad was almost the tour manager and van driver for The Silver Beatles, before they became The Beatles…

Yeah, but Neil Aspinall go the job instead. When I saw Neil [at Abbey Road], I said: ‘You’ve got my dad’s job…’ It was amazing that McCartney even knew what my last name was, and he remembered my dad as well. That’s probably why he didn’t mind me telling him his guitar solo was shit…

The title of the book, You’d Look Good On A Donkey, comes from something Ian Brown from The Stone Roses said to you. The Roses were a big influence on Ocean Colour Scene in the early days, weren’t they?

It’s safe to say that without The Roses, you wouldn’t have had my band, The Verve or Oasis – what people labelled ‘Britpop.’ I know it’s on the front of my book, but ‘Britpop’ didn’t really exist for the musicians doing it… Five or six years before, The Roses paved the way for it on a commercial level, but they were more of an influence on our attitude and style – they blew us all away. They were in their mid-twenties and me, Ashcroft, Noel and Liam were in our late teens. We saw this band who had it all but were cool as fuck. We were like, ‘shit – we can do that.’

Damon Minchella

‘I’ve never been arsed what people think of me. Apart from my closest friends and family, I don’t give a flying fuck!’

You used to live near Ian Brown, in Notting Hill, didn’t you? And Brett Anderson from Suede lived nearby too you call him ‘a plonker’ in the book…

Yeah – he lived round the corner, and so did Justine Frischmann – when Damon Albarn was seeing her. Me and him [Damon] never got on, but I always got on with her, which annoyed the fuck out of him. She’d always come and talk to me, but he’d be looking the other way.

The book’s very honest – you don’t mind who you upset, do you? Are you not worried about some people coming back to you over what you’ve written?

Not in the slightest – I’ve never been arsed what people think of me. Apart from my closest friends and family, I don’t give a flying fuck what people think. I don’t care – it’s not a book about making friends…

I was interested to read that when you were young, you didn’t have any interest in music – you were into football, messing around on your bike and watching war films – but one morning you heard The Cutter by Echo & The Bunnymen on the radio, and it changed your life…

Yeah – totally. Prior to that, music was always on – my mum had a good record collection – but I wasn’t particularly arsed. It was always the shit my sister was listening to, which was pop music. I’d never thought ‘Wow – this is incredible! – until The Cutter came on breakfast radio. It was like a sound from another world. I was like, ‘What the fuck? I need to know what this is.’

‘The first gig I ever saw was The Bunnymen on the Ocean Rain tour –  at Birmingham Odeon. I got down to the front, they came on and I was like, ‘Well – this is it: I’m gonna do that!’

Weirdly, The Bunnymen were in Smash Hits and my sister had every copy, so then I saw what they looked like – they looked as otherworldly as their music. So, that was it – I went and got the single.

You didn’t have a record player – you borrowed your sister’s

I probably never gave it back. The first gig I ever saw was The Bunnymen on the Ocean Rain tour – I’d moved from Merseyside to the Midlands, and I went to see them at Birmingham Odeon. I queued up on me own, I got down to the front, they came on and I was like, ‘Well – this is it: I’m gonna do that!’ I thought the guy on the right, Les Pattinson, who was on bass, was the coolest, so I wanted to do that.

Later on in your career, Ian McCulloch asked you to join The Bunnymen, didn’t he?

It was like a weird circular thing in my life. By that point, I’d obviously done loads of music and I’d met Mac a few times… He’s a character – let’s put it that way…

But you turned down the opportunity….

Yeah. I’m mates with Les Pattinson, who is the reason why I became a bass player. I told him and he said, ‘Nice one – you’ve dodged a bullet there…’ It’s not the easiest touring environment.

In the book, you write about the early days of Ocean Colour Scene, and the struggles you had making your first album – you had to re-record it a few times. You were signed to the Fontana label but, after hearing the demos for the second album, which, funnily enough, included future hit, The Day We Caught The Train, they didn’t want to work with you anymore…

It was crazy – they hated us so much that they just wanted to get rid of us. There was another song [on the demo] that ended up being on Moseley Shoals too. I can’t remember what it was… It took a year to end the relationship – we couldn’t do gigs because of all the legal bullshit.

‘The hellscape of making the first album had sucked all the life out of what we wanted to do’

So, we got ourselves the best sort of space we could afford, which was a horrendous sort of little backroom in a studio. But that’s when we just thought, ‘Right, let’s just fucking be us now..’ The hellscape of making the first album had sucked all the life out of what we wanted to do – we kept changing producers…

It was the typical major record label thing – they sign a band that sounds like something, you start making a record and then some other music scene happens, so they want a different producer to fit in with that. And then another scene breaks, and they want another producer to fit in with that. By the end of it, you’ve ended up with a very expensive pile of shit.

It was a struggle financially, wasn’t it? You were on the dole right up until The Riverboat Song was successful, weren’t you?

Yeah – apart from me and Steve [Cradock – Ocean Colour Scene guitarist] touring with Weller, we had nothing. All our mates who weren’t in the band had proper jobs and had bought flats and had proper cars, and we were struggling to get the bus fare to get to the studio.

People say we were really lucky because of TFI Friday and the Weller connection – he liked the band – but that wasn’t luck, it was self-belief and stubbornness that got us to that position. Everyone else who’d been dropped by a major label would say, ‘we’ve got no money – let’s pack it in…’

I didn’t realise how much Andy Macdonald, who had the Go Discs! label, helped you out ahead of you making Moseley Sboals...

Yeah – he’s an amazing person and I talk about him in the book. He loved our demos and what we were doing, and he wanted to sign us, but he’d just signed Travis, and it was quite a small label. He had Weller, who was exploding, and Portishead, who were doing well. He signed some other dancey stuff too, so he couldn’t take us on, but he said: ‘Here’s some studio equipment and £10,000 in cash.’ We were like, ‘What the fuck?’ Ten grand in 1995 was a fortune.

You mentioned not being able to afford the bus fare to get to the studio, but how was it when you suddenly found yourself in the spotlight and making serious money. How was fame? Was it a bit of a headfuck?

Not really – it doesn’t happen in a huge explosion, it’s day-to-day. As it was incremental, it was easier to deal with. It’s not like you’ve suddenly won The X Factor...

And you’d put the effort in early on…

Yeah, but I think it was also because we’d spent so long in the wilderness. We’d already done the first album on a major label thing, and that all went wrong. We stuck to our guns, so it was more validation really – it was like, ‘Okay – people like our music…’ It wasn’t just the four of us, our manager, a few friends and Andy Macdonald anymore…

You go from being flat broke to looking at your bank account and going, ‘Jesus Christ!’ And, instead of everyone around you saying, ‘You’re shit, split up’ – everyone’s saying, ‘Wow – you guys are amazing!’ That’s going to inflate anybody’s ego, but it’s how you deal with it is the test.

Ocean Colour Scene were a band that were liked by the people but disliked by the music press, who called you ‘Dadrock.’ Why did the media hate you so much and did it bother you?

I know why they hated us… The first time round the music press said Ocean Colour Scene were going to be the biggest band in the world – they hyped us up and then we had the disaster of making the first album, which took three years rather than three months, by which point they’d moved on – they were like ‘You guys are dead to us…’ So, we came from nowhere – it was completely unexpected.

They presumed we’d split up and then suddenly we’re on Top of the Pops and daytime Radio 1 – and they, the purveyors of good taste, were like, ‘How dare you.’ We circumvented them and became massive, so they had to slag us off.

Then there was Britpop and then Britrock, which I suppose, were positive terms – everyone was talking about it – but we got called ‘Dadrock, which was supposed to be really insulting, because it was the music your dad listened to. Well, my dad had really good music taste…

Do you think Ocean Colour Scene have gained critical acclaim as time’s gone on?

I think so. I hate the word ‘authentic’, but we were true to ourselves, we had talent, quality, and great songs. At the time it had a label, but then, years later, people go: ‘This is really good…’

It’s like Free – they’re only really known by the vast majority of the general public for All Right Now because it was in a chewing gum advert. It’s by far their worst song – their second, third and fourth albums are astonishing. They were never cool, but, over time, people are like, ‘We should listen to Free…’ Things that are written off and labelled as X, Y, Z… Now those labels don’t matter…

‘We didn’t like the closed-mindedness of the whole mod thing. It was supposed to be modernism – looking to the future – rather than thinking it’s all about 1967’

In the book you write about how Ocean Colour Scene were often labelled as a mod band, but, other than Steve, you weren’t mods, were you? Simon [Fowler – singer] was into folk music, and, like you, The Velvet Underground, and Oscar [Harrison – drummer] liked lovers rock and dub. You did embrace the mod look, though…

Yeah, and on the artwork, and it didn’t help that we had scooters… The look is good, and the clothes are great, but we didn’t like the closed-mindedness of the whole mod thing. It was supposed to be modernism – looking to the future – rather than thinking it’s all about 1967.

You played bass in Weller’s band, but you weren’t a fan of The Jam, were you? You prefer The Style Council – although you don’t like some of the ‘80s production on their songs…

I think it stems from when I was at school. Once I discovered The Bunnymen, I got into The Velvet Underground, The Stooges and Suicide – all that kind of stuff. You get into all this weird, cool-as-fuck music where nothing is straightforward, like the lyrics and the look.

When I moved from Merseyside to the Midlands, my mates at school were all into The Jam, but you’d hear the music and it was too obvious – they looked boring and you knew what every word meant… There was nothing to unravel in your mind – there was no mystique.

Obviously, Weller wrote some fantastic songs in The Jam, but I think the songs he wrote in The Style Council are way more interesting, but the problem with a lot of The Style Council stuff is the production, which is very ’80s…

What did playing with Weller teach you? Did you develop as a musician and learn to improvise?

Yeah – I learnt to improvise a lot, and to be really committed – not that I wasn’t committed, as I’d been through the wilderness of being on the dole and making tunes in a really shit studio… It was more about playing live – the sheer attitude of it and how it was the most important thing right now… It doesn’t matter if you make a mistake – it’s onto the next bit and give it your all.

One of the main things Paul gave me was the chance to explore loads of music that I wouldn’t have thought of listening to, like Free and Traffic. The first time I listened seriously to The Verve was when he gave me a cassette which had History on it.

I saw The Verve when they did their first album. Me and Simon [Fowler] saw them at some tiny venue in London – they were good, but it was when they were doing that sort of psychedelic sonic space jam stuff… So, Paul opened my eyes to The Verve, which is kind of weird, because I would go on to work with Richard. That’s not to say that Paul was open-minded about all kinds of music – I’d play him some stuff and he just refused to listen to it.

‘One of the main things Paul Weller gave me was the chance to explore loads of music that I wouldn’t have thought of listening to, like Free and Traffic’

We talked earlier about how honest the book is. You’re very candid about the bad times in Ocean Colour Scene as well as the good times. When the band got a lot of money, that led to a lot of drugs too, which, ultimately, caused a rift between some of the members, didn’t it?

Yeah – it happens to every single band, if they’re inclined to go that way. You’ve suddenly gone from no money to shitloads of it, and, if you’re in a band, you tend to do drugs anyway… And now no one’s telling you you can’t, and you’ve got lots of money, so you can afford it. You also then got extra people involved, like partners…

And all the hangers-on…

Yes – you’ve got a lot of people talking and also lot of pressure to follow up the next record, to make sure you have another hit. All of a sudden, it’s rare that all four people in the band and their manager are together on their own – all of a sudden, you get a little fracture.

Half the band are doing uppers and half are doing downers, so that immediately creates a sort of energy rift, and as soon as that starts, when you’re in the band, small things become big. People – particularly blokes – don’t tend to talk about how they’re feeling. So, you get the two who are smoking a lot of weed [Simon and Oscar] and won’t go into the studio because they think the other two are just going to have a go at them…

‘I can’t listen to One From The Modern now, because I know how it was made…’

That all came to a head on One From The Modern, which was basically mine and Steve’s record. If we hadn’t pushed it, it would never have got done. It wasn’t the record that me and Steve wanted to make, but it’s still a very good record. I can’t listen to that record now, because I know how it was made… I was talking to someone for a podcast yesterday, and they said One From The Modern is their favourite album. I was like, well, good for you, but it’s not mine…

Since you left Ocean Colour Scene, in the early 2000s, you’ve seen Steve and you’ve seen Simon, but you haven’t spoken to Oscar, who you fell out with in a big way, leading to you leaving the band. Would you like them to read the book?

I know they will… Oscar won’t like any of it… I think if Steve and Simon get to the end of it, they’ll be like, ‘All right, fair play…’ because I’ve got a lot of love and respect for the band and particularly for Steve and Simon. If they only get halfway through it, I’m expecting my phone to be quite hot…But if they get to the end, they’ll go: ‘We get it…’ They were there as well – they know what happened. It’s not like I’ve invented some sort of Stalin-esque re-reading of our lives.

We talked about drugs… There’s a good bit in the book where Ocean Colour Scene accidentally join a drug cartel…

(Laughs). That was a very bizarre time – it was when we were finishing off One For The Modern, which was sort of the pinnacle of the band being at their most excessive. We were all doing a lot of drugs and we had a tried and tested dealer, but we didn’t know the police were keeping tabs on him…

They see him going into a big studio in an industrial part of Birmingham, where loads of trucks go, and they think the band is being used as a transportation front for an international drug cartel, which we didn’t know the guy was part of.

Bizarrely, the other three guys in the band were buying their drugs with cheques… so the police found that out as well…

Ocean Colour Scene

There was a paper trail…

I’m not being funny, but just go to the cashpoint… I’d moved to London, so when I was in Birmingham, I stayed at a hotel – the police never saw the guy come to my house, but they saw him go to the other guys’ houses as well, not just the studio… Obviously, we weren’t a drug cartel, but, you know, the studio got raided by the armed drug squad…

‘We were all doing a lot of drugs and we had a tried and tested dealer, but we didn’t know the police were keeping tabs on him…’

And your manager, Steve’s dad, was an ex-copper…

Yeah – and fortunately he was able to sort of deal with it without anyone having a heart attack. He understood who we needed to talk to. Obviously, there were going to be some arrests and cautions, but then eventually they were going to say, ‘ Okay, it’s not you guys…’

It made the TV news and you had to distract your mum when she saw the story on the telly…

Yeah – she’d come in from the kitchen, turned on the telly, and it panned across a picture of the band… then it was just a picture of me on screen, with the news anchor saying, ‘What next for Ocean Colour Scene?’

There’s another police-related story that didn’t make the book. You once signed autographs for the police when you had some drugs hidden in the glove compartment of your car…

Yeah – I’d bought a sports car, I’d been working late in the studio, and I was driving back with the top down, playing Public Enemy at full blast. It was when I was renting an apartment not too far from the studio, and the police had cordoned off the road for some reason.

I was thinking, ‘shit…’ They’d blocked the road and they were obviously going to search the car, so I immediately turned off Public Enemy, stopped the car and took my hat off.

A copper came up to me and said [adopts a Brummie accent]: ‘Fucking hell – it’s Damon from Ocean Colour Scene!’ He called his mate over – another copper – and they said: ‘Can we have your autograph?’ They asked me where I lived, opened the roadblock, and let me go. Meanwhile, my heart was pounding…

The Family Silver: Matt Deighton, Steve White and Damon Minchella

You were in a great band with singer-songwriter /guitarist, Matt Deighton, and drummer, Steve White, called The Family Silver. It’s now just over 10 years since your debut album, Electric Blend, came out. Is there talk of reissuing it and playing some gigs?

Yeah – there is. It kind of depends on Matt, and also if there’s enough desire for it – not just from the three of us. We’re all of a certain age now… It’s not like when you’re younger, and and it’s like, ‘Great, let’s get in a van and eat frozen pizza, and we can all share a room on tour…’ No chance!

It was a great band – and a pure band. It’s nice when it’s just three people as well, because it just makes everything incredibly important – what each person’s playing. And I do like that stripped-down side of music a lot. It’s a possibility – it’s definitely not a shut book.

 

I like the bit in the book where you talk about how Steve White calls you on a Wednesday in 2005 and asks you if you want to play a gig with him on Saturday – it turns out to be The Who at Live 8, in Hyde Park…

When anyone asked me to do something, particularly in London, my stock answer was always ‘no’ – I was living in Warwickshire, out in the countryside – but when Steve told me what it was, I was like, ‘Fuck – it’s The Who!’ I went to a little pub just around the corner from my house, and thought, ‘Fuck – I need to learn some Who songs, but I haven’t got any of their records…’

You weren’t a Who afficionado…

No, but obviously they’re brilliant… Apart from a greatest hits album, I didn’t have any of their records, so I didn’t know any esoteric tracks. By the time we’d eventually found out what the setlist was, I’d kind of worked the songs out, and we rehearsed for one hour on the Friday…

That’s crazy… Only one hour?

Yeah – we played Won’t Get Fooled Again twice…

Well, that’s almost half an hour already…

(Laughs) Yeah. We went on stage after Robbie Williams, who’d heroically overrun – everything was running behind and it was insane backstage. Me and Steve weren’t even having a beer because we needed to keep our shit together.

As you both walked towards the stage, Steve said to you: ‘If we fuck this up, our careers are over…’

Yeah – brilliant! And we had to push past Sting and Bob Geldof to get on stage – they were in the way. We didn’t fuck it up – thank God.

I watched a clip of it on YouTube – you can’t see a lot of you because of where the cameras are positioned…

Yeah. I’ve got really short hair for some reason. Clearly, I wasn’t planning on doing the world’s biggest gig ever…

You wrote some of the book while you were on tour with Richard Ashcroft, including the dates supporting Oasis last year – how were those shows?

I think Oasis did 42 shows – we did 24 of them. I’d easily done over 100 gigs with them the first time round. It was a lot more organised this time – it was like clockwork.

What was amazing about it was the euphoria from the audience – even more than the first time round. I think it was that people couldn’t quite believe it was actually happening.

Richard Ashcroft: photo by Dean Chalkley

 

‘Richard Ashcroft is the last of the singer-songwriter rock stars’

And walking out on stage with Richard… We’re the special guests, but we weren’t seen as the support band… We were our own world within the Oasis world and, for those 45 minutes, people were losing their shit and crying – before we’d even played a note…

It was amazing to see so many young people there – there was a whole new respect for Richard, and Oasis and Cast. You’ve got this entire new audience, which is millions of people, who didn’t get it the first time around. Maybe their parents played them the tunes when they were growing up, or an older brother or sister. A lot of the kids in the audience had parents who weren’t even born the first time round…

It culminated for me at the gig in the Chile, which was the best gig I’ve ever done – it was in the old National Stadium [Estadio Nacional in Santiago], which is where the Chilean government used to execute people in the ‘70s.

There’s a monument at the far end of the stadium, but you can see it from the stage – there were 90,000 Chileans and it was like a biblical experience for them. It was utterly incredible – an amazing, life-affirming experience.

Is Richard your favourite musician you’ve ever worked with?

Yeah – he’s the best performer and best singer, and a great songwriter. If you combine everything together… People might say, ‘Oh – Weller is a better guitarist than Richard…’ Yeah, of course he is, but he’s not a better singer than him – that’s for sure – and he’s not a better frontman… And if you combine it with Richard’s fucking aura… He’s the last of the singer-songwriter rock stars.

So, what’s next? Would you like to write another book?

It’s in the back of my head – I’ve got an idea. I left it open in this book that I might do a follow up. It’s going to be music-related, but it might not be part two of a memoir… but then again it might… That sounds really mysterious… I think I probably will do one. 

It could be a book about going on tour with Wendy James from Transvision Vamp…

Christ – what an experience that was.

I didn’t know you’d done that, until I read a brief mention of it at the end of the book…

I wish I hadn’t done it. It was Steve White’s fault. We were playing a gig with Weller in L.A. and Wendy James came in, because she knew Steve and Paul.

She was like, ‘I’m putting a band together…’ and Steve said: ‘Ask Damon – he’ll play bass for you…’ And I was like, ‘Yeah – cool…’

So, I went on tour… and oh my fucking God… It was hell. It wasn’t a fun experience at all – it was the second time I’d left a tour halfway through. I just couldn’t take it anymore. I think I left the tour in Madrid, and I didn’t tell anyone.

I remember Wendy sending me an email that said: ‘You will never work with me again.’ I just replied: ‘Obviously.’

 

You’d Look Good On A Donkey: Britpop, Basslines & Bad(ish) Decisions by Damon Minchella is out now, published by Backstage Books.

For more information, visit: www.backstagebooks.com.

‘I want people to know that I’m still out here, fighting the good fight’

Picture of P.P. Arnold by Gered Mankowitz

This month sees the release of a new live album by ’60s soul singer and mod icon, P.P. Arnold.

Live In Liverpool was recorded in 2019 at Grand Central Hall, on the tour for her album The New Adventures of… P.P. Arnold, which she made with Steve Cradock (Paul Weller and Ocean Colour Scene guitarist) at the helm.

It features versions of her hit singles, The First Cut Is The Deepest and Angel Of The Morning, as well as songs from 2017’s The Turning Tide and The New Adventures of… P.P. Arnold, which followed two years later.

Other tracks on Live In Liverpool include I Believe and Hold On To Your Dreams, which were both co-written with her son, musician Kojo Samuel, as well as Weller’s Shoot The Dove, covers of The Beatles’ Eleanor Rigby and The Beach Boys’ God Only Knows, and Magic Hour by Cradock.

Arnold, who turned 78 earlier this month, was born in L.A, and was one of Ike & Tina Turner’s singing and dancing troupe, The Ikettes, before she moved to Britain in 1966, where she launched a solo career that’s lasted almost 60 years.

She’s worked with acts including Mick Jagger, Rod Stewart, The Small Faces, Eric Clapton, Nick Drake, Barry Gibb, Peter Gabriel, Roger Waters, Primal Scream, Ocean Colour Scene and Paul Weller.

Early next year, her career will be celebrated with a new 3-CD box set, which will include rarities and unreleased material.

In an exclusive interview, Arnold talks to Say It With Garage Flowers about Live In Liverpool, collaborating with Cradock and Weller, her ‘lost years’ in the ’70s, the new box set, and appearing as the animated character, Cleo Nibbles – the Soul Mouse, on CBeebies show Yukee earlier this year.

“I just want to do as much as I can while I can,” she tells us.

Q&A

Before we start chatting about the new record, I just want to say that I’m not sure if I should call you P.P. or Cleo Nibbles – the Soul Mouse…

P.P. Arnold (Laughs): She’s a darling, isn’t she?

How did the opportunity to voice a cartoon character come about and was it fun to do?

P.P. Arnold: It was big fun! They contacted me, we did it and it’s really great. I love it, and I told them, ‘I’ll do a Cleo Nibbles album!’ I would love to do it for the kids.

Cleo Nibbles, the Soul Mouse, from BBC children’s show Yukee – voiced by P.P. Arnold: picture courtesy of the BBC

Was that your first time doing voiceover work?

P.P. Arnold: I used to do loads of jingles and stuff, but it was the first time I’d done a voiceover like that. I like doing things that I’ve never done before.

Let’s talk about your new album, Live In Liverpool, which was recorded in October 2019 at Grand Central Hall, on the tour for your album The New Adventures of… P.P. Arnold. What was special about that show that made you decide to put it out as a live album?

P.P. Arnold: It was just a great gig, and it was in Liverpool, at a great venue… We recorded quite a few gigs, but that particular one was the last night of the tour, and it was just a great night… It was a solid show and it just worked.

How was it touring that album, which has a big production, with rich arrangements? You had an eight-piece band on the road with you…

P.P. Arnold: I was lucky because I had Steve Cradock batting for me – he dealt with the musical direction, and the musicians were all guys he knew – Andy Flynn [bass, guitar] was from the Steve Cradock Band. Tony Coote played drums on the album, so he knew what to do. I’d been touring with those guys previously, promoting The Turning Tide album, so we all knew each other. Steve and I have been working together for quite some time.

‘I always believe that Steve Marriott had something to do with bringing Steve Cradock and I together, spiritually’

You first met him in the ’90s, didn’t you? 

P.P. Arnold: I remember it like it was yesterday. I was on the road doing theatre – the musical Once On This Island, which won an Olivier Award. Steve came to see me at the last show, which was in Birmingham – he showed up with flowers and introduced himself. They [Ocean Colour Scene] wanted me to go to the studio that night, but I was going back to London. So, after that, we hooked up when we did the tribute album for The Small Faces [Long Agos and Worlds Apart –1997].

What’s the chemistry that you have with Steve? Why does your relationship work?

P.P. Arnold: I always believe that Steve Marriott had something to do with bringing us together, spiritually – we both love Steve and he is in that mix… Steve [Cradock] and Sally [his wife] are like my babies – I sang at their wedding. It’s a family affair with us.

When I was working with Ocean Colour Scene, they were very young. Steve’s dad, Chris, didn’t quite get me – I was doing Reiki and stuff, because I was trying to put protection around everyone. He thought I was a bit of a witch or something… I was into nutrition and regeneration – my spirit is really strong – but I was going out on the road with these kids, and you know what they were doing back then… That had all been in my past… Anyway, it’s all cool now.

 

Let’s talk about some of the songs on Live In Liverpool. Baby Blue, which is on The New Adventures of… P.P. Arnold, was written by Steve Cradock and Steve Grizzell. Was it written for you?

P.P. Arnold: No – Steve [Cradock] brought it to the table. He had a relationship with Steve Grizzell. When he first presented me with the song, I didn’t think it was good for me – I thought it was too pop. I didn’t really get the lyric until I found out what the song was all about it – I like to know that… I like to know what I’m singing about, because, for me, it’s all about expression and telling the story.

When I spoke to Steve Grizzell, he told me that the song was about a young girl who had become pregnant and her parents made her give her baby away, so that was why she was ‘baby blue.’ Wow – then it hit me hard, because it was close to an experience I had had as a young girl, becoming pregnant. It was different, because she had to give her child away, but it was about the whole teen pregnancy thing and how it affects a young girl’s life.

She became a goth – the lyric says: ‘You should be standing out in peacock feathers like you used to do before you were baby blue.’ Once I got the story, I loved the song.

Musically, it has an authentic, late ’60s pop-soul feel…

P.P. Arnold: Exactly – Steve Cradock loves all that about me, that I’m authentic and from the ’60s, but still here and able to do that.

There’s a version of Everything’s Gonna Be Alright on the new live album. That song, which was originally released in 1967, has become a Northern Soul classic, hasn’t it? 

P.P. Arnold: It was my first single and it did absolutely nothing. I missed that whole Northern Soul thing because I wasn’t here [in England] in the ’70s. I came back in the ’80s and that record was being sold for £100 and I thought, ‘Wow!’ That got me chasing my royalties…

I never used to sing it because I thought it was a bit twee at the time – I’d come from the States and being an Ikette… I wasn’t even sure about who P.P. Arnold was… Even though I was a soul singer, all my music was produced by English producers, so it wasn’t like Motown soul or Stax soul… I created that sort of pop-soul fusion…

You had that late ’60s London sound… 

P.P. Arnold: Everything about me was British production… When I went back home to the States [in the ’70s] nobody was into what I was doing, but when I worked with Eric Clapton, he produced my roots and gospel sound and got more of a funky thing. But a lot of people didn’t get that because in the States it was what I called the ‘hot lick syndrome’ everyone was trying to sound like Chaka Khan, and it was a modern gospel sound, so everyone thought what I was doing as a black American singer was lame.

Picture by Gered Mankowitz

A lot of people still don’t get my sound because it’s more old-school gospel and soul-based. My thing is about singing songs – it’s not about ‘licking’ all over the place.

I can do that, but I have more of a melodic sound in the way in which I express a song. I’ve got my own lane this is me, I’m P.P. Arnold and I have a distinctive sound.

‘A lot of people still don’t get my sound because it’s more old-school gospel and soul-based’

There’s a great and very powerful version of (If You Think You’re) Groovy on the live album. That song was written for you by Steve Marriott and Ronnie Lane from The Small Faces…

P.P. Arnold: Absolutely – they first wrote Afterglow for me, but they kept it back and gave me (If You Think You’re) Groovy… I’ve done some versions of Afterglow but I haven’t released any of them because of all the politics with the publishing and his family not getting the rights. I know Steve would be pissed off about what’s happened with that. I’ve stayed out of it, but recently Steve [Cradock] and I did a really beautiful acoustic version of I’m Only Dreaming [Small Faces song] that’s going on the box set I’ve got coming out. I didn’t want to put it on there, but it’s such a lovely version.

When’s the box set being released?

P.P. Arnold: February. There should be pre-orders around Christmas time. It will have unreleased and rare stuff on it, including the tracks I did with Chaz Jankel, which were never released. The stuff I did with Dr. Robert is on there…

I love the 2007 album you made with him: Five in the Afternoon…

P.P. Arnold: It’s a great record, but the label it was on shut down and it never got the exposure.

Let’s go back to the live album…You co-wrote I Believe, which is on it, with your son, Kojo…

P.P. Arnold: Yeah, And Hold On To Your Dreams, which was the first single. When I did Burn It Up with The Beatmasters, I was the only live thing on the record, but I was the only one who couldn’t get a record deal… I was being really revolutionary about it, and after that I recorded a track called Dynamite – that’s going to be on the box set. I did it with Kenny Moore, who was Tina Turner’s keyboard player, and The Beatmasters produced it.

I needed to get my shit together, so I had a 16-track setup at my house that Kojo was cutting his production teeth on – he produced his momma. So, we did those tracks [I Believe and Hold On To Your Dreams] and I was trying to get a deal with them – and we did them in a real dance format, but we couldn’t get a record deal.

I didn’t want him, as a young man, to have to be going through my struggle and disappointments – the ageism thing was being laid on me – because he was doing some great work… Steve [Cradock] heard those tracks, and we decided to do them, and they’re great.

I Believe has a ’70s disco feel, and is very spiritual – it’s a positive song…

P.P. Arnold – Both of those songs are very spiritual. You said I Believe has a ’70s thing on it – that’s cool, because I was feeling Stevie Wonder – that kind of groove. Kojo and I wrote those songs together – he laid the tracks down, and I had the lyrics… He’s great – I’d love to be working with him now, but he don’t have time for me!

Medicated Goo, from The Turning Tide, is on the live album – it’s a great version. That’s a big song when you play it in concert… 

P.P. Arnold: It is, and I make sure that everyone knows that the ‘medicated goo’ is a healer… It’s not just about getting high…

I really like your version of the beautiful Sandy Denny song, I’m A Dreamer, which you recorded for The New Adventures Of… P.P. Arnold, and is also on the live album. She was such a great singer and songwriter. Did you ever meet her?

P.P. Arnold: I didn’t get to meet her, because during the ’70s, I’d gone back to America, and I’m still coming back from that period…

You call that time in the ’70s ‘the lost years…’ 

P.P. Arnold: Yeah – the lost years… Had my stuff from then been released at the time – the Barry Gibb tracks, The Turning Tide and the Eric Clapton productions – it would’ve been a whole other story…

Talking about Sandy Denny, who was part of the ’60s and ’70s English folk scene, you and Doris Troy sang backing vocals on Nick Drake’s Poor Boy, from his 1971 album, Bryter Layter. Do you have any memories of that session?

P.P. Arnold: Yeah, I remember Doris Troy calling me and saying, ‘Hey, baby, what you doing tonight? Do you want to come and do a session with me?

We went to Fulham [Sound Techniques studio, Chelsea] with the producer, Joe Boyd… It was another session, y’know… but there was a vibe that night with him [Nick Drake] – he was very reserved and quiet… a very shy guy.

We worked with him quite closely, and he explained what he wanted us to do, and what the song was about. We just gave him what he wanted. As I talk about it, I’m getting chills… It was a lovely evening, working with a really nice guy.

At the time, I didn’t really know who he was, and I didn’t find out about that track until I came back in the ’80s.

Paul Weller is a big Nick Drake fan, and you’ve worked with Paul…You sing his song Shoot The Dove on Live In Liverpool… How’s Paul to work with? 

P.P. Arnold: I love Paul – he has been so supportive. When Steve Cradock and I were doing  The New Adventures… I told him about the tracks [from The Turning Tide] that I’d finally got the licence for and that I needed somewhere to mix them. Paul and Steve let me mix them at Black Barn. I met him in the ’90s, when I was doing stuff with Ocean Colour Scene, and I went to a couple of his shows. He’s lovely, and he gave me Shoot The Dove and When I Was Part of Your Picture.  

There’s a lovely moment on the live album where you sing Eleanor Rigby, in Liverpool, and you tell the crowd it’s one of your favourite songs by The Beatles. I really like your version of it, with the church-like organ on it… 

P.P. Arnold: Yeah – that whole Hammond vibe…

You recorded Eleanor Rigby on your second album, Kafunta, which came out in 1968. Did you meet The Beatles?

P.P. Arnold: I’ve met Paul a couple of times – we once met in Harrods, doing Christmas shopping  but I didn’t know John or Ringo. I met George, because we did the Delaney & Bonnie tour together. We had to go over the Channel in a boat – I shared a cabin with Lesley Duncan, George and Billy Preston. Billy was a gentleman such a beautiful guy. I knew he was gay, so he wouldn’t be jumping on my bones!

I knew him from church – when I was 12 years old, me and my sister were in a gospel group that sang at Billy’s church. He also used to hang out with Ike and Tina Turner.

On Kafunta, you recorded songs by The Beatles, The Beach Boys and The Rolling Stones. Was that your decision, or was it down to your producer, Andrew Loog Oldham?

P.P. Arnold: Andrew had a vision and great ideas, but I was never forced to sing anything. If I didn’t like a song, I didn’t have to sing it. I didn’t have confidence in myself as an artist. I never came into the industry saying, ‘I’m an artist and I want to do this, or I want to do that…’ That’s why I got lost in the ’70s, because the universe had always put me with people who knew what they were doing.

‘I just want to do as much as I can while I can, and if it’s possible to move onwards and upwards, instead of going round in circles, that’s what I want to be doing’

There’s a nice live version of Life Is But Nothing, which was on your first album, The First Lady of Immediate, on the new record. You’d never sung that live before, had you?

P.P. Arnold: I’d never sung it… Steve Cradock insisted I sing it, and now I sing it all the time.

The live album ends with The First Cut Is The Deepest, which was the song that kick-started your career. You had a hit with it in 1967. It was written by Cat Stevens and you recently sang it on stage with him…

P.P. Arnold: I did – in Henley. That was great. It was the first time I’d seen him since 2007, which was the first time I’d seen him since 1968! The concert was for Mike Hurst, who produced The First Cut Is The Deepest, as he has Parkinson’s it was a fundraiser for charity.  

‘I’m making another record –  I’m doing a duet with Paul Weller and I think I’m going to do some more stuff with Steve Cradock’

After Everything Is Gonna Be Alright didn’t happen, I really needed a hit if I was going to stay here. My kids were with my mum [in the US], and she gave me six months to make it work, but Mike brought that great song to the table, and it’s the story of my life. It was as if the song had been written for me.

Any plans for a new studio album?

P.P. Arnold: Oh, I’m making another record. I’ve finished a track called I Know We’ll Get There, and I’m doing a duet with Paul Weller. I heard from him yesterday, when he was in the States… It’s just about [having the] time – when can we do it? Paul’s got a lot going on, and I haven’t got a label behind me, driving things… Anyway, he’s cool and we’re staying in touch about it divine order will make it happen.

Steve Marriott will make it happen…

P.P. Arnold: Yeah – he’ll make it happen, and I think I’m going to do some more stuff with Steve Cradock that will go on the album.

You’ve had to deal with tragedies, difficulties and a lot of bad luck in your life, but you’re always such a positive person. I’ve met and interviewed you a few times and I find you inspirational – you always cheer me up and you have an aura…

‘I just want to do as much as I can while I can, and if it’s possible to move onwards and upwards, instead of going round in circles, that’s what I want to be doing’

P.P. Arnold: Thank you. I’m pure energy. There’s no way I could do it without it. I can’t mess around with my vocals, so I’ve never really been into drinking a whole lot, as it dehydrates me and affects my voice. I love to sing. There’s other stuff you do when you’re young and you’re growing up… I couldn’t be doing what I’m doing and looking like I’m looking if I was doing that stuff…

You look great… 

P.P. Arnold: Well, thank you. I’ve invested in my health and fitness. Hey, man, how long that’s going to be going on, I don’t know… What I do know is that I just want to do as much as I can while I can, and if it’s possible to move onwards and upwards, instead of going round in circles, that’s what I want to be doing. I want people to know that I’m still out here, fighting the good fight.

Live In Liverpool is released on October 18 (Ear Music).

A new 56-track, 3-CD P.P. Arnold box set will be released by the Demon Music Group early next year.

For P.P. Arnold UK tour dates this autumn/winter, visit https://pparnold.com/tours-gigs.