‘For the last decade, I’ve been completely obsessed with the seven-inch single’

Sheffield psych-rocker and velvet-voiced crooner, Richard Hawley, has put together a new compilation album for the Ace Records label.

Called 28 Little Bangers From Richard Hawley’s Jukebox, it’s a brilliant and eclectic collection of mostly instrumental, garage rock, surf, rock ‘n’ roll and R & B seven-inch singles from the ‘50s and ‘60s that he’s hand-picked from his own vinyl collection.

Full of killer riffs, dirty sounds, fuzzed-up guitars, mean organ and twangy licks, most of these tunes are guaranteed dancehall floor-fillers and quiff shakers.

There are choice cuts from obscure artists like Ahab & The Wailers and The Dyna-Sores, as well as lesser-known tracks from famous acts like The Shadows, The Troggs, and even Jimi Hendrix, whose ferocious Hornet’s Nest, credited to Curtis Knight & The Squires, opens the compilation – it’s the first time it’s been released in its unedited version.

Say It With Garage Flowers dragged Hawley away from his jukebox and got him on the phone to tell us about the new album, his love of the seven-inch single, his music listening habits and compulsive record collecting tendencies.

“My obsession with it has carried on my whole life. It’s kept me out of a shitload of trouble,” he says, adding wryly, “but probably got me into a different kind of trouble…”

Q&A

How did the idea for the compilation come about?

Richard Hawley: Do you know what? I can’t fucking remember – I think there was Guinness involved, which wouldn’t surprise me. In all fairness, it’s taken so long for it to come out, for various reasons – lockdown being a massive component.

Ace is a fantastic label. I had a long chat with Liz [Buckley – label manager at Ace Records] – she’s amazing – and all the folks there. They’re all fans of music – shit you don’t hear on the radio.

Liz and all the Ace people are incredibly knowledgeable about some of the most obscure music on the planet, but I think the stuff I mentioned surprised them – and me, to be honest. They’d never heard of it, and it sparked their interest.

I can remember Liz phoning me up and saying, ‘It’s about time we did something…’ It was pre-lockdown. They asked me to put 28 tracks together and, in all honesty, this is the funny bit about it… I know a lot of folks who do compilations and spend months agonising about what singles to put on them… I’m being completely honest, cos I don’t like lying – my manager, Graham, came around to see me and said, ‘Rich – you’ve been wanting to do this compilation with Ace for years, but you’re dragging your heels and you haven’t given them a list – get it together!’

So, I randomly picked up one of my many DJ boxes, pulled out a pile of records, counted 28 tracks, played them and there was only two I rejected. That was how it was. I guess I am a bloke who makes lists, but I’m not obsessive about it and I’m terrible at organising things. I deliberately have my singles in a random order, but roughly speaking, in whichever decade they’re from. I just like to reach in, pull a single out and play it.

Being a record collector, there’s a danger, but, to a certain extent, you have to put things in rough alphabetical order. But I’m very mindful that that’s super-anal. You end up stood at your record collection looking at it and you can never decide what to play. Do you know what I mean? I don’t know if you’re the same.

I am, but I have young kids and I don’t have time to play a lot of my records at the moment. I still buy a lot of new and second-hand vinyl, though – albums and seven-inch singles…

RH: I feel your pain, Sean. We’re empty nesters now – our kids have all flown. That’s a recent thing. For the last decade or decade and a half, I’ve been completely obsessed with the seven-inch single. I’ve been wanting to get a jukebox my whole life and I don’t know how I did it, but I convinced my long-suffering wife, Helen, that it would be a great idea. She always said, ‘Oh God, no, – you’ve got a record player and you come back from the pub pissed-up and play that stupidly loud…’

She knows what I’m like – I’ll come back, a few beers, and play rockabilly and old R & B singles up to the max. I managed to convince her a jukebox was a great idea and thank fuck for the timing – it was a month or a month and a half before lockdown. It’s a 1955 Wurlitzer 1800 and it’s a thing of beauty.

I got it from a dear friend of mine, Ian Clarricoates – he’s a restorer and a lover of jukeboxes –[www.jukejoint.co.uk]. He’s an expert and a top-flight electrician – he’s a lovely man.

We did a deal and he delivered it –  the picture that’s on the cover of the compilation was taken in my house. On the left-hand side, you can see a shadow of me and there’s one of my guitars on the other side. I’ve been obsessed with writing out the labels – it’s really super-nerdy. It takes 55 singles and you can actually DJ with it.

How does your wife feel about it?

RH: Oh, she loves it, honest.

You’ve collected lots of seven-inch singles when you’ve been touring all over the world. If you’re abroad in a town or city, do you make a beeline for a record shop?

RH: Yeah, basically, but there’s a darker side to it. I got into the ephemera of Americana and stuff when I was touring because it kept me from doing shitloads of drugs and hanging around with people I shouldn’t have been hanging around with and getting off me head.

I haven’t done drugs for nearly 24 years and there’s no chance of me ever going back.  I was spending a lot of my time being far more productive and going to record shops – it was a way of keeping myself busy on tour. Touring is incredibly boring, with long drives and all that. I’m not moaning about it and I’m very fortunate to have had the life that I’ve had – me dad was a steel worker who certainly didn’t have the opportunities I’ve had.

‘I got into the ephemera of Americana when I was touring because it kept me from doing shitloads of drugs. I haven’t done drugs for nearly 24 years and there’s no chance of me ever going back’

My dad was a massive record collector. I was just this little kid who’d tag along with him and I got into choosing me own music – he encouraged it. We used to go to Kenny’s Records in Sheffield – me dad’s mate Kenny used to drink in working men’s clubs and he was a massive rock ‘n’ roll, hillbilly and R & B expert. He’s in his eighties now but his record collection is just off the fucking scale – all originals and mint. He ran his record shop and I used to go there and hang out. I also heard a shitload of music from mum and dad, but it carried on… it wasn’t just a childhood thing.

I was too young for punk, but the whole post-punk thing was when I got into listening to John Peel, when I was a very young teenager. You’d just go out and buy the records – it’s not complicated! But the obsession with it has carried on my whole life. It’s kept me out of a shitload of trouble but probably got me into a different kind of trouble. Records contain information and, to me, it’s vital information.

You’ve called the compilation 28 Little Bangers because you said that seven-inch singles are like miniature musical hand grenades…

RH:Yeah – that’s one way to look at it. They fizzle out before they’ve even started – they’re over so quickly. You’ve only got so much time and a seven-inch single can only effectively and efficiently contain so much information before it starts to degrade.

Songs like Hey Jude and Bohemian Rhapsody that are really long took ages to master to get it right, but, generally speaking, it’s easier and quicker with seven-inch singles in terms of the length of time and less information.

I worked with Lee Hazlewood – he would look at a song and if it was two minutes two seconds, he would say it was three seconds too long. It had to be under two minutes – he was obsessed with that.

Now there are digital ‘singles’ for streaming, do you lament the loss of the physical classic seven-inch?

RH: Completely. I am a gentleman of a certain age. We’ve got loads of CDs but I can’t remember the last time me or me wife played ‘em – it’s just the jukebox…

Sanyo G2311KL James Bond portable record player.

My friend Meurig Jones, who runs Portmeirion [in North Wales] – you’re going to love this, Sean, and if you Google it, you’ll go fucking mental – got me into a Sanyo G2311KL James Bond portable record player.

I managed to get hold of one in fully working order for next to nothing and that’s kept me entertained. It’s good ‘cos it can only play records at a certain volume, but I’m happy coming back from the pub and playing ‘em on that, and, so’s my wife. It’s a really clear sound and it looks cool as fuck as well.

I’ve got Technics 1210s as well – so I listen to records on them, the James Bond portable and the jukebox.

Whenever I go to record fairs, I take a Columbia GP3 portable record player – I got it in Japan on tour, in 1998. They’re really expensive now.

‘In the old days, going to Europe, I’d be stuffing albums and singles in my guitar cases and amps and in the clothes wardrobe – anywhere I could shove a record I’d shove one’

I really like your sleeve notes for the compilation – you’ve included some great stories about where you first heard and bought some of the singles featured. Like when you were in a record shop in Germany on tour and the bloke working there played you the A-side of a single by The Troggs called Everything’s Funny, but it was awful, so he flipped it over and played the B-side, Feels Like A Woman, which you thought was great and have included on the compilation…

RH:That’s what happened. It was a friend of Anne Haffmans’, who worked at Mute Records. She knew I was into records, so to keep me out of the pub because I had work to do, she took me to a record shop. It was great, but I think it closed down in lockdown, unfortunately.

The bloke who ran it used to do the classic thing – get on a flight to America with two empty suitcases, fill ‘em with singles and bring ‘em back.

When you’re on tour, you have a thing called a carnet – you have to weigh all the equipment you go out with. In the old days, especially going to Europe, I’d be stuffing albums and singles in my guitar cases and amps and in the clothes wardrobe – anywhere I could shove a record I’d shove one and pick ‘em up at the other end. Brexit’s fucked that completely ‘cos you have to have a piece of paper for even a plectrum these days. 

You got the seven-inch single of Jungle Walk by The Dyna-Sores, which is on the compilation, for five dollars from a woman in a second-hand clothes shop in Tucson, Arizona, and you bought a shirt there at the same time…

RH: That’s right – I had to wrangle for it. I don’t think she charged me for the single in the end – I had to pay a dollar more for the shirt, so she could write it down in her book.

 Have you still got the shirt?

RH: I think I probably have.

‘There’s a sort of disdain when people buy records online. I’m certainly not snobby about it – I buy a lot of stuff online’

There are a couple of good record shops in Sheffield, aren’t there?

RH: There’s Record Collector and Bear Tree Records – that’s more modern stuff. I try and avoid the online thing but, the trouble is, nobody stocks anything serious – you have to go to record fairs for that.

There’s a sort of disdain when people buy records online – some people look down their noses at it – but, to be fair, I think that record shops selling online has kept them alive. I’m certainly not snobby about it – I buy a lot of stuff online.

If I see something I want that’s in Japan or Australia… I got an Australian release of a John D. Loudermilk single – he wrote Tobacco Road. Spending three grand or whatever it is on a fucking flight to Australia to buy a seven-inch single seems a little bit ridiculous.

The guy I bought it from wrote me a little note – he didn’t know who I was – but he said, ‘Thanks ever so much for buying my record – the online stuff keeps the record shop alive.’

What’s the most money you’ve ever spent on a seven-inch single?

RH: Oh, God. Sean – do you think me missus is going to read this?

What about rare vinyl? Are you on the lookout for anything?

RH: I bought a track called Hey Ma Ma by a garage band called The Crystal Rain. It was on a Texas psychedelia compilation and it’s such a fucking awesome track. My wife bought the compilation from Barry [owner] at Record Collector – there’s some landfill on it, but there are a couple of absolute bangers.

I always wanted a copy of Hey Ma Ma and one came up in the UK – I couldn’t believe it. It was some guy in Whitby and he just wanted a ‘buy it now’ price of £220. I paid that for it.

I bought a mint copy of Rock ‘N’ Roll no. 2 by Elvis – the English cover with the yellow background and he’s wearing a green velvet shirt – and I paid £250 for it. Me dad had it and played it to death, so his copy is unplayable now.

The first track on the compilation, Hornet’s Nest by Curtis Knight and The Squires, featuring Hendrix, is awesome. It’s a demented surf-garage rock instrumental – like a theme to a ‘60s superhero TV show…

RH: They were just jamming – a lot of those records were made as jukebox fillers. When you did a vocal, you had to pay more money to ASCAP [American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers], so there were lots of instrumentals which cost less money. Artists would just bang ‘em out – they didn’t spend hours, well some of them did, like Duane Eddy.

On that track, you can hear Hendrix starting to stretch out and starting to become what he became later. He was still playing the sort of Chitlin’ Circuit R & B.

I picked it up in New York for fuck all – about five dollars, if that. I can remember buying it. Now it’s one of the Holy Grails of seven-inch singles.  I can remember there was a cardboard box filled with copies of it – I wish I’d bought the fucking lot!

When I pulled the record out, it was a eureka moment, and when I first heard it, it was beautiful. I’ve been a Hendrix fan my whole life. I know what amp, guitar and pedals he used.

Has it been released on CD before?

RH: From what I can gather, it’s the first time it’s been released unedited and the first time it’s had a proper pressing. On the original single, the track is split, like those old soul or James Brown records – Sex Machine Part 1 and Part 2.

It was a long track but because seven-inch singles only contain so much information, they had to split it between an A-side and a B-side.

Liz at Ace said that the Hendrix Foundation and his family gave her their blessing – they wrote her a really nice long message. It was a real coup. From what I’ve been told, it’s the first time ever the Hendrix Foundation and his family have willingly given their blessing for the track to be released.

‘The intention is to do several volumes, but I don’t deliberately want to make them obscure. With a lot of collectors, it’s about how obscure something is rather than how good it is’

There are some well-known artists on the compilation, like Hendrix, Bobby Darin, The Shadows and Bobbie Gentry, but lots of obscure ones too…

RH: There’s virtually no information on some of them and part of me kind of likes that…

The mystery of it…

RH: Yeah. The intention is to hopefully do several volumes. I’ve got so many records, but I don’t deliberately want to make them obscure because obscure is not always great, as we know from some ‘50s and ‘60s compilation albums. With a lot of collectors, it’s about how obscure something is rather than how good it is.

‘There’s some great stuff out there on radio, but mainstream radio is just unlistenable’

When you’re asked to do your own compilation, let’s be honest, it’s a bit of a vanity project – I’m obviously aware of that – but I like the idea that folks might hear stuff that they haven’t heard before and fans of mine might be turned onto a different path when the only other option is just listening to the radio. There’s some great stuff out there on radio, but mainstream radio is just unlistenable.

Have you got a favourite track on the compilation?

RH: No – I love ‘em all and I kind of like the randomness. It wasn’t that I was just going to do all instrumentals… I pulled about 50 singles out of a box – I roughly knew there were a couple of tracks in there… Hornet’s Nest was definitely one I wanted and there was all this other stuff, but, together, by accident, it sounded great. Often the things that we do in life are by accident rather than design.

So, finally, you’ve chosen your 28 Little Bangers. Any plans to do Hawley’s Big Bangers – a range of sausages flavoured with Henderson’s Relish?

RH: [Laughs]. Perhaps I could do some chipolatas.

28 Little Bangers From Richard Hawley’s Jukebox is out now on Ace Records. It’s available on CD and two-LP gatefold.  

https://www.acerecords.co.uk/richard-hawleys-jukebox

 

 

‘I didn’t do this album because I felt like I needed to make a record – it was to stop myself going mad’

Michael Weston King

The Struggle, the new record by singer-songwriter, Michael Weston King, is his first solo album in 10 years.

It’s also one of the best albums of the year so far – a stunning collection of moving, well-crafted and wonderfully arranged songs, recorded in rural Wales, with producer, engineer and musician, Clovis Phillips.

The album sees Weston King stepping away from his day job, as one half of husband-and-wife country / Americana duo, My Darling Clementine (with Lou Dalgleish), and, instead, mining a rich seam of late ’60s/ early ’70s singer-songwriters, like Mickey Newbury, Dan Penn, Jesse Winchester, John Prine, Bobby Charles and early Van Morrison.

Mixed at Yellow Arch Studios in Sheffield with Weston King’s long-time collaborator/producer, Colin Elliot (Richard Hawley / Jarvis Cocker), musically, it embraces country-soul, Celtic folk and jazz, and lyrically it tackles subjects including the Trump presidency, mental health issues, loneliness, death and the tales of a wayfaring singer-songwriter. 

Two of the songs are co-writes. Sugar was penned with US singer-songwriter, Peter Case, while Theory of Truthmakers sees Weston King putting music to unused lyrics by his friend, Scottish songwriter and musician, Jackie Leven, who died in 2011.

In an exclusive interview, Say It With Garage Flowers spoke to Weston King on the phone – he was at his home in Manchester – and asked him to tell us the stories behind the writing and recording of the songs.

He also got to ask us an all-important question: “Have you ever been to Southport?”

Q&A

The Struggle is your first solo album in 10 years and it was recorded in a remote Welsh studio – Add-A-Band, in Newtown. How did the record and the sessions come about?

Michael Weston King: My friend, Jeb Loy Nichols, told me about a small studio in Mid Wales and the guy who runs it – Clovis Phillips. The name alone was enough to entice me. Anybody called Clovis has got to have something going for him.

I went down there, fell in love with the place and got on well with him. It was very cathartic for me – it got me out of the house. It’s about a two-hour drive from Manchester and it was a much-needed change of scenery. It was also a creative outlet – I didn’t do it because I felt like I needed to make a record. It was to stop myself going mad. I wanted to do something constructive.

‘It’s been a long time since a label’s been screaming at me for a new record. I’m not like Adele, or anything…’

And you recorded it between winter 2020 and spring 2021…

MWK: Yeah – I had little trips down there, for two or three days. I rented a cabin nearby. I didn’t have all the songs ready to go, so I went away and wrote a couple more once I saw how the album was going.

After that, we mixed it in Yellow Arch, Sheffield, with Colin Elliot. There was no sort of deadline that it had to be done by, so I just did it as and when – I set my own deadlines, which is what I’ve done for the past 20 years. I’m a great prevaricator – if I don’t set deadlines, I’ll put things off. It’s been a long time since a label’s been screaming at me for a new record. I’m not like Adele, or anything…

How did you approach writing and recording this album? It’s very much in the vein of singer-songwriter records from the late ‘60s/ early ’70, rather than ‘Americana,’ isn’t it? Did you have a definite idea of what you wanted it to sound like?

MWK: Yeah – if I’d had the budget, I wanted it to sound like Mickey Newbury in 1970, but that would’ve meant an orchestra on every track. One of the songs, Another Dying Day, was the starting point – it was the most Newburyesque song. We put strings on it and approached it in the same way that he’d recorded a lot of his stuff, with a lot of nylon-strung guitar. Some of the other songs happened organically and went off in other directions.

I certainly wasn’t trying to make an Americana or country record, but country-soul was always at the heart of it –  a bit of a Dan Penn and Spooner Oldham vibe. We have some Wurlitzer on there.

‘I certainly wasn’t trying to make an Americana or country record. If I’d had the budget, I wanted it to sound like Mickey Newbury in 1970’ 

Weight of The World has a country-soul feel, and I love the guitar break on it… There are some lovely arrangements on the record.

MWK: Thanks, man. I did the arrangements, but Clovis did all the playing from, apart from specialist stuff, like trombone. I sang it and he played it, basically. I didn’t want any drums on the record, but there is one track with drums on – he played those, as well as the bass and pretty much all the guitars. He takes a lot of credit for what he contributed.

Let’s talk about Weight of the World, which was the first song you shared from the album. It’s written from the point of view of a Washington D.C. policeman who votes for Trump due to peer pressure but regrets his actions. It was inspired by Trump’s horrible PR stunt outside St. John’s Church in Washington, wasn’t it?

MWK: Absolutely – you’ve summed it up perfectly. There were many grotesque things that happened during Trump’s presidency but for some reason I found that more grotesque than anything – the way protesters were swept off the streets like they were rioters.

Picture by Ronald Reitman.

I didn’t feel I could write about it as if was there – I wasn’t – and I’m not American, so I put the song and the voice in the hands of someone who was there. That day, a lot of people who voted for Trump might’ve thought better of their actions – it was a turning point for a lot of people.

The song Sugar is a co-write with Peter Case…

MWK: I was out at a songwriting retreat in Lafayette [Louisiana] – Peter was there too. We’ve known each other for years and done stuff together before. He kicked it off – it’s more his song than mine. He had an idea that he wanted to write a song about sugar. For me, that could be anything – is it drugs, or is it a woman? It’s vague – anything that intoxicates you is what sugar represents in the song. It’s got Peter’s stamp on it and I liked it. I started playing it with Clovis and it came together nicely. It’s one of those songs that kind of just plays itself, and it was nice to have a collaboration with one of my favourite songwriters on the record.

There are some sad songs on the record. The Hardest Thing Of All deals with mental health issues, like depression and anxiety. Those themes also crop up on Another Dying Day, and the title of the album reflects those issues too…

MWK: Yeah – the daily struggle. We’ve all been through that in the past couple of years, but, equally, regardless of the pandemic, life is a struggle a lot of the time for a lot of people – and the older you get, sometimes it seems harder.

I’ve had problems with my mental health over the past few years. The Hardest Thing Of All is about that feeling when you don’t want to get up or do anything – you just want to hide away. It kind of all fell out and tumbled into that song. It’s not a new message, but I think it’s a commonplace one. Quite a lot of people I know who’ve heard the album have related to it.

Even though The Hardest Thing Of All deals with a dark subject matter, it has a lovely warm arrangement, with some great Southern soul organ…

MWK: It’s a very melodic and kind of uplifting tune set against some pretty dark lyrics – I like that juxtaposition. Clovis played some fantastic organ on it. When I listen back to that song, and when we play it live, I can imagine it with a bigger arrangement – it would really lend itself to drums.

What can you tell us about Another Dying Day? It has some wonderful, subtle strings on it…

MWK: Thanks. That’s an older song – it was written when I was still living in Birmingham. I used to have a neighbour who was always very hale and hearty – everything was “top of the morning”. If you looked at his garden, everything was growing and blooming, but mine was overgrown and needed weeding. It was a metaphor for his life and how I was feeling at the time.

If you’re a ‘pub person’, you see so many people who, the minute the door’s open, are there for the rest of the day. At times, I’ve almost got to that point – the song is about that battle to try and kill the day and do something constructive. It’s something we could all easily fall into if we let it.

‘Regardless of the pandemic, life is a struggle a lot of the time and the older you get, sometimes it seems harder’

The Final Reel is a folk song, with a Celtic feel. It reminds me of early Van Morrison…

MWK: That was the idea – it was written about Jackie Leven. He was hugely influenced by Van – Jackie had one large foot in the folk/ Celtic world and, if you were describing him, you could call him a “Celtic soul singer.” I wanted to try and write a song that was in his style.

I wrote it a long time ago – the week before Jackie died. I was doing a concert in Perth [Scotland] – on the way there, I was driving past Loch Leven, so I stopped, walked along the shore and gave Jackie a ring to see how he was doing – he was already in hospital at that point and it was clear he wasn’t coming out.

I thought I’d give him a ring and tell him where I was – we had a chat and a laugh and when I hung up, that was the last time I spoke to him. The song is a reflection of that – it sets the scene of where I wrote it and it’s also about what he and I did, as wandering minstrels. We did hundreds of shows together – the tales of the wayfaring singer-songwriter. That’s what I tried to convey in the song.

Picture by Ronald Reitman.

This seems like a good moment to talk about the song Theory of Truthmakers, which is based on unpublished lyrics by Leven, which you’ve set music to…

MWK: Yeah – we had a mutual friend, called Allan Black, who is a great painter who lives in Glasgow – a lovely, unassuming guy. Jackie used his art on one of his albums. They were travelling together one day and Jackie wrote some lyrics – for some reason, he gave them to Allan, who kept them as a souvenir. He mentioned it to me and I said, ‘I’d love to see them,’ so he sent them to me and I thought I would try and put them to music. The idea was that the song would go on a Jackie tribute album that I curated last year, but it didn’t get finished in time, so it’s on this record.

It has a cinematic feel and is slightly jazzy… 

MWK: Yes, and the song The Old Soft Shoe on the record has a bit of a jazz feel… The chord pattern on Theory of Truthmakers isn’t the sort of thing I usually write. For the chorus, I was trying to write something big, like Heroes, or a song I could imagine Scott Walker singing.

You mentioned The Old Soft Shoe – that’s another sad song, with mournful trombone on it. It’s about loneliness – a man is lamenting the loss of someone, and he’s dancing alone,  practising steps… 

MWK: Exactly – it’s the guy’s memories of his wife or partner, and dancing was their thing. He doesn’t having a dancing partner any more, but he still dances on his own at home. I wanted to write a song like Jesse Winchester’s Sham-A-Ling-Dong-Ding. It’s just the most beautiful song –  a few years ago, he sang it it on Elvis Costello’s Spectacle TV show and it killed everybody. Any songwriter who saw it must’ve just thought ‘oh my God – let’s see if I can have a go at writing something like that.’ I was the only one stupid enough to try it.

‘I wanted to write a song like Jesse Winchester’s Sham-A-Ling-Dong-Ding. It’s just beautiful’

And so to another sad song… Valerie’s Coming Home. It’s really poignant and is about the end of someone’s life and sorting through their possessions…

MWK: Valerie was Lou’s mum – she died just before Covid hit. It was a blessing in a way, because we didn’t have to go through all the estrangement that would’ve happened with Covid. The song just sort of happened – I had quite a close relationship with Lou’s mum. There’s a line in it about me opening a window – like a classic old person, her room was always boiling hot. It also says, ‘Oh, close it Frank, you’ll let the heat out’ – for some reason, even though I knew her for 23 years, she always called me Frank. Apparently he was some kind of old family member who was a bit of a wide boy – a ladies’ man. So, why she associated him with me…. Anyway, I was “Frank” for many years.

Funnily enough, the next song on the album after that one is called Me & Frank

MWK: [laughs]

Lyrically, it’s a bit Springsteenesque – a story song about the antics of two young boys, which includes stealing a horse…

MWK: Yeah – it’s my attempt at John Prine, rather than Springsteen, but I know what you mean – that Nebraska feel. It has an American folk song narrative.

When I was in my teens, I used to hang out with a guy called Anthony. We lived in Southport – he lived very near the sea – and he always had these schemes about making money. Have you ever been to Southport?

No, I haven’t…

MWK: The sea hardly ever comes in – it’s a bit of a running joke. There’s a lot of grass on the beach – we used to collect grass seeds, bag them up and sell them door-to-door to make money. His family were fishing people – his dad was a shrimper – and they used to give us mackerel, which we sold.

‘Some of the things in the song are true and some are fictional for the sake of the storyline. We didn’t actually steal a horse’

We were scallywags, selling what we could to make a bit of money. I wanted to write a song about that, but it needed to be a bit more interesting than that, so some of the things in the song are true and some are fictional for the sake of the storyline. We didn’t actually steal a horse, but there was a horse at the back of his garden.

The funny thing is that Anthony has gone one to become a millionaire landscape gardener – one of his clients is Dave Gilmour. From selling grass seeds, all these years later gardening has become his chosen profession.

Picture by Steve Lavelle.

So, what’s next? Can we expect another My Darling Clementine record anytime soon?

MWK: One of the reasons I did the solo album was because the songs I was writing didn’t feel right for My Darling Clementine. When I write for My Darling Clementine, I’m writing for two voices – it’s a very different song. These songs were for one voice, hence that’s why it’s a solo record. We’ll see – hopefully Lou has been grafting away and coming up with some songs too.

If we do any recording this year, it will be for My Darling Clementine, but I’m not sure in what guise. It could be full-blown, or we might make an acoustic record. I don’t know – I’ve got one or two songs that would work.

Maybe you could do an album of songs themed around people called Frank?

MWK: [laughs].

To Be Perfectly Frank? Actually, that sounds like the title of one of those awful Robbie Williams swing albums.

MWK: Yes – it does…

The Struggle by Michael Weston King is out now on Cherry Red Records.

https://michaelwestonking.com/