In 2022, I spoke to singer-songwriter, guitarist, producer and former Suede member, Bernard Butler, for a hi-fi magazine article on the re-recording and reissue of his 1998 debut album, People Move On, which included new vocals and extra guitar parts.

He told me he’d been going into a London rehearsal room for 18 months with an electric guitar and a microphone, revisiting some of his old songs, and then writing some new ones, with the intention of finally putting out a long-awaited follow up to his last solo album – 1999’s Friends and Lovers.

So, that record, Good Grief, came out this year and it’s my favourite album of 2024 – a very personal, intimate, honest and reflective collection of songs, which, lyrically, tackled subjects including his religious upbringing and Catholic guilt, his teenage years when he was dreaming of a life in music, anxiety, the companionship of solitude, and, how as a young man, he was often shamed for showing his emotions.

Butler, who has worked with acts including Duffy, Pet Shop Boys, Sharleen Spiteri, The Libertines, Tricky, Sophie Ellis-Bextor, Ben Watt, Sam Lee and Jessie Buckley, produced the album, and played a lot of the instruments: guitars, drums, bass, piano and violin.

‘Good Grief is my favourite album of 2024 – a personal, intimate, honest and reflective collection of songs’

He was joined by a small amount of guest musicians, including long-time associate Sally Herbert on violin, who arranged the strings, cellist Ian Burdge, and violinist Jo O’Keefe.

First single, the cinematic mini-epic Camber Sands, with mariachi horns, piano and violin, was a soundtrack to jumping in your car and escaping from London to be beside the sea: ‘We’ll get away from this town where the pavement’s stained – it’s the backstreet of your heart that’s clogging up your veins…’

Deep Emotions had a gorgeous, folky, Bert Jansch-like acoustic guitar intro – Butler was a friend of Jansch’s and collaborated with him – but then slipped into rock-soul territory, with a big chorus, finger clicks, soaring strings and a superb, liquid, ‘70s-sounding electric guitar solo.

There was more lush orchestration on the wintry and moody London Snow, which was partly inspired by the city of London becoming a ghost town during Covid, and The Forty Foot had some wonderful, spiralling acoustic guitar patterns and startling electric playing.

Not all of the songs on Good Grief  were new –  Clean, a sparse, bluesy ballad that was written with Edwyn Collins, first appeared as a B-side in 2001, but Butler re-recorded it for the album.

Final song, The Wind, was a beautiful, stripped-back, country-tinged track, with opening lines penned by singer and actress, Jessie Buckley, with whom Butler made the 2022, Mercury Prize-nominated album, For All Our Days That Tear The Heart.

I spoke to Butler in late 2024, a few days after he’d played a superb show in London’s Lafayette, to tell him I’d made Good Grief my album of the year, and I also found out about life on the road as a solo artist, asked him to choose his favourite album from this year, and got the lowdown on his next record, a collaboration with Scottish singer-songwriters Norman Blake (Teenage Fanclub) and James Grant (Love and Money), which is released in March 2025, under the name Butler, Blake and Grant.

Q&A

Good Grief  is my favourite album of 2024. It’s the record I kept going back to most this year.

Bernard Butler: Thank you.

When I interviewed you earlier this year, for the website Superdeluxeedition, the album was just about to come out. Were you pleased with the reaction to it? It was your first solo record in 25 years…

Bernard Butler: I’ve probably taken for granted the way that it’s gone because I’ve been so busy this year. When I last spoke to you, it wasn’t so much how the record would be received, but [more] how I would be received for doing it.

I wasn’t worried about the songs, but whether people wanted me to do something or would accept me doing it – particularly as I was making a solo record for the first time in a long time and performing.

Roll the clock forward and the past six months have been a bit of a blur… I think I’ve done 61 shows this year. I felt that by the time I got to London the other night [November 2, Lafayette], I was flying and it was very natural. I don’t doubt myself – I’m not insecure, and I feel like I’m in a place where people are there because they want to be there… Probably the best way of looking at it is that I’m keener to get on with the next one now and make a mark in the road rather than just make a start.

You’ve toured all over the UK and in Europe this year. How was it?

Bernard Butler: It was gruelling because I do everything on my own – I drive myself to the shows and I do the setting up and the packing down, and I meet everyone afterwards, and do the merch. You find yourself driving off to find a hotel at midnight, parking and then checking in… I’m that weird person… ‘You’re checking in now?’ ‘Yes – I’m checking in now and I don’t need to know the hotel facilities, apart from the wi-fi…’

‘Being po-faced and over-earnest isn’t me, so if I was on stage trying to be a serious artist and enigmatic, it wouldn’t be natural’

I’ve been up and down the M1 a million times – that’s the overriding feeling. It’s tiring, but, at the same time, I feel like musically it’s made me better – more fluent and confident with what I’m doing. As a musician, you want to be in a position where you’re always learning – the more you do something, the more you learn. When you get to show 20 or whatever, you feel like you’re in a free space…

I like your in-between songs patter… You make me laugh. Do you think a lot of people expect you to be a lot more po-faced, or over-earnest on stage?

Bernard Butler: Yeah – I’m aware of that… Down the years, you get to know what people think of you, vaguely, and so you get to a point where you can get to address that a little bit… I don’t have to try and address it, as I’m just being myself. Being po-faced and over-earnest isn’t me, so if I was on stage trying to be a serious artist and enigmatic, it wouldn’t be natural.

I think there’s enough emotional and drawn-out drama in my music to cover me when I’m playing the songs. In-between the songs, it’s a nice contrast, and I like talking to people and disarming them… I don’t like silence, like when I have to play churches and everyone’s super-quiet and reverent – it’s a bit restrictive.

Most of the time it’s just me on stage… I don’t have a band, so I’ve got no one to turn around and talk to… I come off stage and go into the dressing room… I can’t say, ‘Hey, guys – how was that?’, as there’s no one there… So, in a way, when I talk to people from the stage, it’s just a bit of a conversation for me and I make a bit of a joke, or tell a few stories about the songs – I think people like that kind of stuff.

 

I’m very aware – there’s no secret about this – of the perception of me from where I came from… Suede, basically, and that situation, and everything that was written about me around that time, and is still written about me in the shadow of that narrative… It’s a narrative that I have no control over – it’s written in stone, and I cannot say anything about it… It’s a very difficult situation for me in one sense, but, on the other side, I just think, ‘OK – I have a little space every night where I can address that in my own way…’ Not by going on about that situation, but by saying, ‘Hey you lot – you probably think of me as this person, but I’m just going to give you exactly who I am…’

So, if people go away thinking, ‘I thought he was going to be this shy, cynical arsehole, who’s wrapped up in himself, because I’ve read that, but I’ve actually had a fun night…’ It’s the only space I’ve got available to do that…

When I saw you play at Lafayette in London, you were joined by a great double bass player called Caimin Gilmore…. 

Bernard Butler: I met him when I was doing the Jessie [Buckley] record. We went to Ireland to do The Late Late Show  and I was put in touch with some Irish musicians – I only met him two hours before the show… We did a quick rehearsal, did the show, and went out and had a few beers… He did some other shows with me around that time – he’s an amazing musician.

I did a Bert Jansch tribute show last year at the Royal Festival Hall, and I got Caimin over to play a couple of songs with me – it was kind of testing the water, and I really enjoyed it.

‘Something that thrills me about my shows, and that I hope people pick up on, is that I’m not running a laptop or playing the songs exactly as they are on the record. A lot of it is improvisation on the spot’

It’s interesting that you mentioned Bert Jansch, because when Caimin played with you, it reminded me of John Martyn and Danny Thompson, or Pentangle… That improvised, folk-jazz thing…

Bernard Butler: A lot of my shows are improvised, but the reason I wanted Caimin up there was to have another person who could also improvise – he could go against me, and I could spar with him. Something that thrills me about my shows, and that I hope people pick up on, is that I’m not running a laptop or playing the songs exactly as they are on the record. A lot of it is improvisation on the spot.

You have to know your shit to do that in-front of people, night after night. It’s a really thrilling part of this episode in my career – every solo I ever do is improv.

 

With Caimin, everyone always talks about Danny Thompson… It’s a fair call, but he’s also very different to that, and he’s very good as using his instrument to get almost special effects – what he does with a bow is amazing.

With Caimin, there’s a bit of an opening… a beginning of where I go next… I made a lot of this record [Good Grief] on my own – almost all the instruments… It always ends up like that – not by my choice… I just start writing something and recording it, and if it sounds good, I just keep it, but my dream is to be in a room with people. I don’t really want to record on my own – it’s a very painstaking process and very long-winded. I would love to be in a room, just standing with some people, and hear the music come alive. I want to take a bit of the weight off my shoulders. With the next stage of what I do, I really want a bit of help… (laughs). I feel like I’ve earned it.

You are known as a producer, as well as a guitarist and singer-songwriter. Would you like to work with a producer?

Bernard Butler: I’d love it. People probably don’t expect me to say that, but I would. I’ve produced many records for people and myself – I’ve done it and I’ve learnt all those skills. I don’t need to prove anything, but I’ve love to sit with somebody else and let go of the reins. I don’t know if that will happen next time… maybe I’ll try something. I’ve no idea how that would come about… Part of that is the cost – everything in my business has got to be economical now. It’s so hard to earn a living… Having Caimin is the first step…

Earlier this year, you released an EP on digital and vinyl – Live At The Green Note, which featured six songs from Good Grief…

Bernard Butler: I wanted something out in time for the tour, so people could go to a show and bring something home. For most artists, merch is their petrol home or their Travelodge, or it pays their bills, and, because of streaming, I feel if people go to a show they enjoy, they want to take a souvenir home…. I’ve got a feeling that a lot people who buy my records don’t have a record player, but they’re still beautiful things to have – we’ve gone to a lot of effort, as we always have done, to create good artwork.

When you leave a show, hopefully feeling good, then you might want to take something home to remind you of it. Before streaming, you could go home and put the record on the next morning, because you wanted to hear it again, but now you don’t have that thing to hold in your hand… Also, because of the way I’ve been playing the songs from Good Grief all year, I thought it was nice to have a version of that… a little record.

I like the live version of Clean, which has a snatch of you singing Temptation by New Order… 

Bernard Butler: Whenever I do that live, no one ever mentions it! I’m just doing it for me and you, Sean.

Is Temptation a favourite song of yours?

Bernard Butler: Of course. I’m a huge New Order fan and I always have been. My brother used to be a king bootlegger in the ’80s. He used to go to New Order shows with a Walkman under his raincoat, record everything and bring it home. New Order, The Smiths, The Cure… acts from that era. That’s pretty much how I learnt to play guitar.

‘I buy a few records every year – a handful of things that I like and I know I’m going to return to’

Temptation is an odd song… It’s one of the best New Order songs, but, for me, it’s never had a definitive recording. They did two versions in 1982, which are the best ones, but they’re really dirty and not technically up to scratch. It was redone for Substance in 1986, but I don’t like that version at all.

You mentioned buying vinyl earlier… Do you buy a lot of records? Are you a crate digger?

Bernard Butler: I don’t go out every weekend, like I would’ve done, but I buy a few every year – a handful of things that I like and I know I’m going to return to.

So, what new vinyl albums have you bought this year?

Bernard Butler: I’ve bought the Bill Ryder-Jones record, which I really love, Beth Gibbons, and the Weller album, which was good – things that are beautifully made and that I know I want to find next year, not lose in the cocoon of streaming. I can just pick them up again…

Have you got a favourite album of 2024?

Bernard Butler: Probably Bill Ryder-Jones… I’ve been listening to him for a long time, but haven’t always thought it completely hits the mark, but he’s one of those people who’s giving you nods all the time that he’s a talented fucker. With this record, I felt it just hits it, over and over again. I’m blown away by it – it’s really beautiful and I love his approach to vocals and the playfulness of the instrumentation.

 

So, in March next year, you’re releasing an album by Butler, Blake and Grant – your project with Scottish singer-songwriters Norman Blake and James Grant, which started off with you playing some shows together. How did that collaboration come about?

Bernard Butler: Two or three years ago, Norman and James were going to do a Celtic Connections show, and a friend of mine suggested that I should do it with them. I knew Norman from years back, but I didn’t know James at all. It was a deliberate thing to put three songwriters together and do a songwriters circle thing to experiment…

We did it once, it was a good laugh and really easy – we just got up there and joined in with each other, and it went down really well. So we did another, and then we ended up doing a tour and it’s snowballed.  All the time we were just playing the songs that we had already, but it was James’s idea to do some writing. I was a bit reticent because it worked with us just doing it for a bit of a laugh, but then we did it… We went up to Norman’s to hang out for a couple of days and see what would happen. It really worked – there was no set way of doing it – we just sat around in armchairs playing, and James said, ‘I’ve got this tune…’ and he started playing a song, and we joined in and started working it out together.

‘I always write for a purpose – I never have songs stockpiled, but I keep notes and ideas for lyrics’

I asked Norman if he had any recording gear and he did, so we got out some mics and set them up in Norman’s living room – we had no headphones or isolation. There was no studio set up – just three microphones plugged into a computer. We said we would record everything we did – just press record and leave it… We did a song by James and one of Norman’s, then I wrote something really quickly, overnight (laughs). 

The two of them are super-talented – James has got loads of songs, and Norman has little bits here and there, and he has to pull them together, but I always write for a purpose – I never have songs stockpiled, but I keep notes and ideas for lyrics. I write down thoughts and things people say or things that I hear, so when I want to write, I have a resource to go to. I don’t ever sit and finish a song, type it out and leave it for weeks…

So, from the first session, we each came up with a song, and we recorded them – just us singing and playing guitars. I took the recordings back to London and had a little fiddle with them and added a few things – a bit of percussion, or whatever, and said, ‘Guys – this is good, it’s a record…’ So we did another couple of sessions and did a song each and that’s how the album’s come about. It was a real joy.

How is it being the only English guy in the band? It’s like a twist on the old joke: an Englishman, a Scotsman and a Scotsman walk into a bar… 

Bernard Butler: It’s terrifying – especially in Scotland. They go into super-Scots mode, where the accents and the in-jokes get thicker, and I have to admit that I’m the idiot Englishman and just have to be obvious about it. It’s a lot of fun and it’s really helped with my confidence, and it gave me an opportunity to get going again.

When I arrived to do the first show, James and Norman thought I was just going to play guitar, which is quite funny looking back at it – I assumed they thought I was coming to sing as well, so I rocked up with some songs and they were like, ‘OK,’ and they didn’t say anything about it… It wasn’t until months afterwards that they admitted it. I think it’s better for it – I hope everyone thinks that… We do a really good version of ‘Yes’ [by McAlmont and Butler] – I really like playing it with them because they get stuck into the harmonies.

Are you making plans for another solo album?

Bernard Butler: Yeah – I’m thinking about when I’m going to do it and start putting it together, but I haven’t written anything yet. I’ve got lots of things knocking around, but I want to use next year to focus on Butler, Blake and Grant, and then I’m going to start getting my own record together for the year after, because I don’t want to lose momentum. There will be lots of solo shows next year too – I’m going to keep touring.

Good Grief is out now on 355 Recordings.

www.bernardbutler.com

The debut album by Butler, Blake and Grant will be released in March 2025 (355 Recordings).