‘I’ve managed to exorcise and express something I never thought I would have to experience’

The title track of Michael Weston King’s new solo album, Nothing Can Hurt Me Anymore, is a dark, haunting and funereal, Southern Gothic-style ballad in the vein of Nick Cave, set in the countryside, with swaying pine trees and red kites circling in the sky.

In the atmospheric song, he sings: ‘In this house sleeps my wife and beside her sleeps my daughter. And the wind howls round the eaves, as I leave and close the door. And the willows that surround it are the weapons that protect us, because nothing can hurt me anymore.’

One morning in early March this year, Say It With Garage Flowers is sat with Weston King in the lounge of the house that’s mentioned in the song – his home, a farmyard cottage in rural mid-Wales – but there’s no wind howling outside, just bright blue sky and sunshine. The willows are around the door, though, and the red kites are wheeling overhead.

Eerily, a couple of hours later, when Weston King and filmmaker, John Humphreys, venture into the surrounding fields and countryside to make a video to accompany the song from which the album takes its name, the sky turns grey and foreboding, as if to complement the track’s unsettling atmosphere.

“There’s a short walk that I do quite often – along the canal, over the bridge, up to the hills and back – I pretty much wrote all of the song while I was doing that walk, just writing down everything I was looking at,” says Weston King. “It’s a kind of minor blues – it’s a bit like a Townes Van Zandt song.”

Like several songs on the album, ‘Nothing Can Hurt Me Anymore’ was informed by a family tragedy – in summer 2024, Weston King and his wife, Lou Dalgleish, who, together, make up the country-soul duo, My Darling Clementine, lost their six-year-old granddaughter, Bebe, in the Southport attacks, when 17-year-old Axel Rudakubana killed three young girls and attempted to kill ten others, including eight children, at a Taylor Swift-themed yoga and dance workshop.

Reflecting on the title track of the new album, Weston King says: “Lyrically, it’s a combination of moving to a new location and how it was slightly therapeutic for me after what happened to Bebe, so it’s partly a narrative description of the area and partly a reflection on losing her.”

The loss of Bebe derailed My Darling Clementine’s plans to record a new album – as much as they tried to carry on and make a record that was going to be about starting over and beginning a new life in the country – they moved to Wales from Manchester in 2023 – with the weight of so much sadness and grief bearing down on them, it just didn’t seem the right thing to do.

The tragic events of summer 2024 not only changed the music My Darling Clementine were making and the songs they were writing, it also altered their outlook on life.

Recognising that everyone’s grief is individual – even that of a husband and wife – Weston King and Dalgleish needed to channel their suffering via their own individual creativity and in their own way, rather than in collaboration, so they worked on two solo albums.

Dalgleish’s record will be out later this year, while Weston King’s – Nothing Can Hurt Me Anymore – is released on April 4, which is Bebe’s birthday.

Opening song, ‘The Golden Hour’, is his take on the devastating events of summer 2024 and references how the murder of the three young girls in Southport and their families’ grief was hijacked and exploited by the far right: ‘We took our sorrow home – some took it to the street…’  It’s a defiant and rousing anthem – a widescreen epic, with strong echoes of early Springsteen.

‘La Bamba In The Rain’ – set in the English seaside town of Southport, where Weston King grew up – addresses the current trend of flag waving across the UK, and the call by those on the right for the ethnicity and immigration status of perpetrators of attacks to be made public: ‘When the Union Jack’s unfurled, and placed around the waist of every teenage boy and girl.’

‘Just A Girl In The Summertime’ – written about Bebe – is a lush, ‘60s-style pop song; the cinematic ‘Die of Shame’, with its spy film guitar licks and dramatic string arrangement, concerns itself with the media coverage of the Southport tragedy, and final song, the stripped-back, delicate, and lullaby-like ‘Sally Sparkles’, was inspired by the ‘stage name’ Bebe used when she performed on the swing in her back garden.

Nothing Can Hurt Me Anymore was partly recorded in rural mid-Wales – at the small Add a Band studios, where Michael had made his solo album, The Struggle, in 2022 – and partly in not-so-rural Sheffield, at Yellow Arch Studios.

‘ ‘La Bamba In The Rain’ – set in the English seaside town of Southport, where Weston King grew up – addresses the current trend of flag waving across the UK’

The album was produced by Weston King, along with Colin Elliot (Richard Hawley, Jarvis Cocker, Self Esteem), who also plays on it (bass, keys, cello, percussion, backing vocals, brass programming), and Clovis Phillips.

Musicians on the record include Phillips (Bill Callahan, Richard Thompson, Jeb Loy Nichols); Dean Beresford (Richard Hawley, Imelda May) on drums; Matt Holland (Van Morrison) on trumpet and flugelhorn; Shez Sheridan (Richard Hawley, Duane Eddy, Nancy Sinatra) on guitar; Clive Mellor (Liam Gallagher, Richard Hawley) on harmonica; Jeb Loy Nichols on backing vocals, and Erin Moran – AKA A Girl Called Eddy, duetting with Weston King on ‘Just A Girl In The Summertime.’

A large part of the album is influenced and affected by his unimaginable personal loss, but not every song on the record is about the tragedy. There are a few lighter moments too, like ‘A Field of Our Own’, a gorgeous, folk-tinged and slightly jazzy tale about relocating to the countryside and, quite literally, finding pastures new; ‘When I Grow Old’, which is a bittersweet reflection on ageing, and the unabashed and uplifting love song to his wife, ‘Grow Old With Me,’ with its soulful horn arrangement and honest lyric: ‘Yes, I love being here on my own… I still need to know you’re coming home.’

Speaking about the album, Weston King tells us: “I’m really pleased with it, and I’m pleased with how I’ve managed to exorcise and express something I never thought I would have to experience  – consequently, it’s been a form of catharsis.”

Q&A

You weren’t planning to make a solo album, were you? The original idea was to record a new My Darling Clementine album, but the tragedy of losing Bebe altered your plans…

Michael Weston King: That’s right. We hadn’t made a new, original Clementine record for a while – the last one was an Elvis Costello covers album. To be honest, we made that partly because we had dried up a little bit with regards to writing – when you’re writing for two voices, it’s quite hard and a much more considered process – you can’t just let the muse take you. So, we did the Costello album – it was great fun to work with Steve Nieve on it – and, in 2023, it was time to make a new record, so I was writing songs for it and Lou was trying to get back into the groove of it.

We’d partly recorded three or four songs at Add a Band studios, with Clovis Phillips, and then what happened, happened, and it just didn’t feel right to be making that kind of record. We couldn’t really write beyond the pain that we were in, and, when you’re writing as a duo, you kind of compromise, but Lou and I didn’t want to compromise in how we were going to deal with the grief process. So, we made a decision: ‘There’s no Clementine record – we’re both going to make solo records, and we’ll make them at our own pace and release them accordingly.’

Not all of my new record is about losing Bebe – that would be a bit too much of an ask for the listener. So, some of the album ended up being a mixture of songs reflecting on the tragedy from a personal point of view and the events that happened – the gutter press and the far right coming to Southport to trash the place off the back of immigration… all that shit.

The other songs are about moving away and starting a new life, which we have done here. We had a different outlook just moving here, but, after what happened, your outlook on life changes considerably, and I think that’s reflected in the record.

‘Not all of my new record is about losing Bebe – that would be a bit too much of an ask for the listener’

I don’t know how you would even begin to deal with such a tragic situation, but I know you channelled your emotions into the songs. How quickly after losing Bebe did you feel comfortable writing about what happened?

I wrote the last song on the album, ‘Sally Sparkles’, when we were staying at my dad’s house – we stayed in Southport for about eight weeks, to be with our family.

One morning, I just woke up and wrote the song in ten minutes – that was only a few weeks after we lost Bebe. It wasn’t like, ‘I’ve got to write about it…’ – it just came out. The other songs that deal with the loss happened six months afterwards, but, again, I didn’t sit down to write them. I just let it come and wrote down what I felt. ‘The Golden Hour’ is pretty much about the events and what happened to us.

That’s one of my favourite songs on the album – it’s defiant and anthemic, and it feels like you’re channelling early Springsteen…

It’s unashamedly Bruce-esque – ‘For You’, from his earliest album, is always a song that I’ve loved and, on and off, over the years, I’ve kind of wanted to rewrite it. In the end, I wrote something in that style, but all about what happened. It is quite a defiant song – the chorus is: ‘She’ll never be over; she’ll never be gone… ‘ It’s quite an uplifting song to sing, even if, lyrically, it’s about a very tragic event.

‘Die of Shame’, which deals with the media coverage of the tragedy, has some great ‘60s spy film guitar on it and some dark strings…

Colin Elliot arranged the strings, and the fantastic guitar is by Shez Sheridan. That song wasn’t written for this record – Mark Billingham [crime writer] had a book called Die of Shame, which was going to be made into a TV series, and I thought I would have a bash at writing the theme tune. But the title got changed to something else and I had this song… It wasn’t fully finished, but I loved the chord turnaround.

It wasn’t a My Darling Clementine song, so it just sat there for a while, and then when everything happened – especially the doorstepping by the paparazzi and the unbelievable depths that they sunk to – it seemed appropriate, as a lot of the lyrics were dark and based on murder, as Mark’s books normally are, so, with a few line changes, the song wasn’t based on the book, but on my experience of dealing with those scumbags.

So, I sang it as though I was one of the photographers – the ambulance chasers who took pictures of the awful situation to sell them to the papers. I’m singing angrily about them, but also from their perspective.

‘A Field Of Our Own’ is one of the lighter songs on the record, and it was originally destined for what would’ve been the new My Darling Clementine album. It’s about keeping it rural…

(Laughs). Yeah – it’s a ‘move to the country’ kind of song, and it’s the fourth track. After three songs that deal with the tragedy, I thought we needed to move away from that to something else. It’s unashamedly written in a Ron Sexsmith style. It’s a reflection on moving out of the city, as it will be good for us – as it’s turned out to be.

And it features sheep on it… Did you record them?

Yes – I did my John Lomax thing… They’re not our sheep, but they’re just behind the field out there [he points to outside the house.]

‘A Field Of Our Own is unashamedly written in a Ron Sexsmith style. It’s a reflection on moving out of the city’

Just A Girl In The Summertime has a lush, ‘60s pop feel…

That’s a strange song – I had a track with my vocal, an acoustic guitar and some synth strings. I was trying to write something like The Pale Fountains – kind of ‘60s Bacharach with a bit of Love thrown in. It had been lying around for ages – it was originally about a boy/girl relationship, so I tweaked it lyrically – now the girl in the song is Bebe, and the second verse is me talking about my son, so it’s now on a whole other level. It’s about a girl who’s lost to us and a father who has lost his daughter.

I took it to Clovis to start with – he put the drums on and built the track, but I wasn’t happy with the synth strings, so, with Colin, we added cello, violin and viola to it, to give it that more authentic string sound. I still wanted to do something else with it, so I got Erin from A Girl Called Eddie to sing on it. I sent it to her and she was totally up for doing it – she went into a studio in New York, put the vocal down and sent it back. It was great.

‘I was trying to write something like The Pale Fountains – kind of ‘60s Bacharach with a bit of Love thrown in’

I wasn’t sure about how me getting another girl in to duet with me would sit with the old ball and chain, but Lou was pretty cool with it – I was quite surprised! Erin’s voice is a counterpoint to mine and it adds an extra level of sadness to it that wouldn’t have been there if I’d sung the whole thing. I love the drumming that Clovis did on it, and the guitar is a bit Isley Brothers – I sent him ‘Summer Breeze’; that was the remit I gave him.

The first single from the album, ‘La Bamba In The Rain’, is set in Southport…

That’s where it ended up being set… I started writing it in Aldeburgh, in Suffolk. Lou and I were there for a few days – it was a dreary day, there was a band playing ‘La Bamba’ in the rain, and it was this classic, weary seaside town.

I kind of half wrote it, and I knew it wasn’t going to be a My Darling Clementine song, so I didn’t really aim to finish it. But then when we lost Bebe, my focus was very much on my hometown of Southport, as I was living there for a few weeks with my family. So, I transferred my writing on Albeburgh to Southport. The second verse is all about Southport, and there are lines about the mayor, who was making promises after the events happened. So, the song became a mishmash of faded seaside towns that have seen better days, as Southport certainly has.

Musically, I was trying to write a song like ‘Band On The Run’. The only reason I used the word ‘undertaker’ was because it features in ‘Band On The Run’ – ‘the undertaker drew a heavy sigh’ – and it flows nicely. It wasn’t anything to do with funerals.

It’s a bit of a surreal song – it’s not to be taken too literally. The last verse references the shipping forecast: ‘Trafalgar and Fitzroy.’

‘The song became a mishmash of faded seaside towns that have seen better days, as Southport certainly has’

I wrote the chorus about seeing Southport and many other towns decked out in Union Jacks, and the proliferation of the far right, and those kind of towns with disgruntled people. The towns may have seen better days, but they are affluent and full of retired people with money – immigration is not going to be affecting them, so it’s bollocks that they should be wanting to wave a flag and protest about it. You obviously see it in the working-class areas, where people feel aggrieved, but you shouldn’t see it in places like Southport and Albeburgh.

‘When I Grow Old’ is another lighter song…

It’s an older song, but it seemed to fit – there is a theme about ageing on the record and changing your life and outlook.

Musically, ‘When I Grow Old’ is one of those simple, Neil Young-type songs, and that’s what we tried to for in the arrangement, with the electric guitar quite loud, even though it’s a ballad.

The song is a flight of fancy: will I end up as a fat, old guy on a Greek island? Where will I end up? It’s a fanciful thing – it’s not real. I like the middle-eight section – I’ve had it for ages, and I always wanted to get it into a song. It’s about having a debauched week but going to church on a Sunday to clean up. I’m one of those people who grew up with a church background, and even though my faith doesn’t really exist very much these days – and it hasn’t for a long time – I’ve always fluctuated a bit between my church upbringing – as a believer – and then being a non-believer. That’s summed up in the middle eight of the song.

‘A Mother’s Pride’ is one of the oldest songs on the album…

I wrote it within a year of my mum dying, which was in 2006. It’s unashamedly a power pop/Squeeze kind of track. My mum was a Squeeze fan.

The guitar solo reminds me of Glen Tilbrook’s playing…

What Clovis played is fantastic. I was hoping to get John Perry from The Only Ones to play on it, but that never worked out. Clovis is such a brilliant guitar player, so I just said to him, solo-wise, ‘Pulling Mussels [from the Shell]’ – that’s what we’re going for here’ and he did it.

The song also mentions your dad, and what you thought would happen to him after the death of your mum…

Yes – it fits with the theme of grief and loss and people ageing – it’s all in that song. My dad lived for nearly 20 years on his own after my mum died. Even though the song was written not long after my mum died, I was foreseeing what would happen to my dad’s life.

‘Into The West’, is one of the darker moments on the album. Was that written for the My Darling Clementine album which didn’t happen?

We were going to try and have a go at it. I’ve always been a lover of R.S. Thomas – the Welsh poet and vicar. When we moved here, I went down a bit of an R.S. Thomas wormhole – five miles from here, there’s a village where he was the vicar. There was a book written about him called The Man Who Went Into The West – he ended up being the vicar of a church that overlooked Bardsey Island. You can’t get any further west. Me and my son, Oliver, who is a poet, went on an R.S. Thomas pilgrimage.

Oliver reads a poem on the track…

Yes, so that ties in. It’s a song about getting out of where we were [Manchester] because I hated it there, and I sing about Winter Hill, which is just outside Bolton and casts a shadow over the Northwest. It always rains there, and Winter Hill cast a shadow for me because when I was younger and living near there, it was an unhappy time. It’s a song about leaving your past behind and moving somewhere else. At the end of the song, Oliver reads an R.S. Thomas poem, but some of the lines are ones that he wrote that I felt were appropriate.

‘Winter Hill cast a shadow for me because when I was younger and living near there, it was an unhappy time’

It has some wailing harmonica by Clive Mellor and musically it reminds me of Ennio Morricone – it’s very haunting…

A lot of that is to do with Clovis’s electric guitar – that echoey Daniel Lanois reverb. Like ‘Nothing Can Hurt Me Anymore’, it’s quite cinematic.

Are you pleased with the album?

I am – I’m really pleased. When you’re making a record, you always have ups and downs: ‘Is it awful or is it great?’ But I’ve been doing it a long time now, so I know I can have those doubts, and you just ride them out.

I’m pleased with how I’ve managed to exorcise and express something I never thought I would have to experience, and, consequently, it’s been a form of catharsis. Writing it has helped me and I know it’s been the same with Lou, who has been writing her songs, but it doesn’t change anything.

Nothing Can Hurt Me Anymore is released on April 4 (Continental Song City).

www.michaelwestonking.com

www.mydarlingclementinemusic.co.uk

https://michaelwestonking.bandcamp.com/

https://continentalrecordservices.bandcamp.com

‘I wouldn’t want to do what Thorne does, but I’d like to have a pint with him and talk about Hank Williams all night’

Mark Billingham

 

It’s been 25 years since former comedian and actor, Mark Billingham, became a crime writer, and this month sees the publication of his twenty fifth novel, What The Night Brings.

Since his first book, Sleepy Head, which came out in 2001 and introduced us to country music-loving detective, Tom Thorne, Billingham has sold over 6.5 million novels, had 24 Sunday Times bestsellers and spent more than 150 weeks in the top ten.

His latest novel – the nineteenth entry in the Thorne series – sees the lead character trying to crack what could be his most shocking case yet.

The book starts with the cold-blooded murder of four police officers – the first in a series of attacks that leaves police scared, angry and, most disturbingly of all, vengeful.

Influenced by recent real-life criminal cases, including the 2021 murder of Sarah Everard by off-duty Metropolitan Police constable, Wayne Couzens, What The Night Brings is also the first of Billingham’s books where he’s had to include an author’s note pleading for readers not to reveal any spoilers, as there’s a double whammy of shocks and reveals at the end of the novel.

What The Night Brings is the first Thorne novel since 2022’s The Murder Book – since then Billingham has been concentrating on his other crime series, which features comedic copper, Declan Miller, and is much lighter in tone than the Thorne books. 

Say It With Garage Flowers invited Billingham for a pint in North London pub, The Spread Eagle, in Camden, which, funnily enough, is mentioned in two of the Thorne books, including the latest one, to reflect on his 25 years of writing crime fiction, talk about the inspiration for What The Night Brings and get his views on the current trend for celebrities writing crime novels.

“Sarah Everard was the starting point for the new book – I knew that was what I wanted to write about. Not that case specifically, but about the changing attitudes towards policing,” he tells us. “You can’t just write about jolly coppers solving murders anymore.”

Q&A

It’s 25 years since you started your career as a crime writer and you’re just about to publish your twenty fifth book. How does that feel?

Mark Billingham: It feels like five minutes… It’s crazy – when I’m working and I turn round and see all the hardbacks lined up on the shelf behind me, I think, ‘where did they come from?’ It’s bizarre – every time I think, ‘Oh my God – this is ridiculous, and I’ve been doing this far too long…’

I’ve just read Michael Connelly’s fortieth crime novel, and Val McDermid has written 35, so I’m not too much of an old dog yet… But, yeah, 25 years… When you start, you can’t possibly think that you’ll be around that long – you don’t even know if you’ll do any more than two books…

I do a book a year – people think that must be hard, but if you write full-time it’s not. What else am I going to do? I don’t think you’ve got any excuse not to write a book a year when you don’t do anything else… I do do other stuff…

But that mostly involves promoting your books…

Mark Billingham: Yes – that’s just having fun…

 

Your debut novel, Sleepyhead, was published in 2001, and made it onto the Sunday Times Top Ten Bestseller list. Why did you become a crime writer after being a comedian and an actor?

Mark Billingham: I’d always written – stories at school, and plays and poems, I used to sit in my room, listening to The Smiths, thinking Morrissey understands me, while writing poems, looking out at the rain.

Did you plan on writing a series of books?

Mark Billingham: When I wrote Sleepyhead, I went into meetings with a bunch of publishers and they asked me if it was the start of a series – I just said, ‘Yes,’ without even thinking about it. I was a big fan of series fiction, and I’d read Michael Connelly, Ian Rankin, and John Harvey, but I didn’t quite have the confidence to think it could be a long-running series.

‘I used to sit in my room, listening to The Smiths, thinking Morrissey understands me, while writing poems, looking out at the rain’

I knew that once I’d done the deal and signed with a publisher, I was going to write two books, but I didn’t really think beyond that. You’d be quite egotistical if you were thinking you could write a dozen of them, because nobody would pay you to write them if they weren’t selling… I got very lucky – the first two books did very well, and I was away.

Thorne has been such a successful character. What’s his appeal and what’s kept you interested in writing about him for so long?

Mark Billingham: What’s kept me interested is that I don’t know anything about him – I know as much as there is in the books… That’s all there is – there’s nothing else, no bible or dossier of facts. I’m just writing him book by book and seeing how he changes.

You’ve never really described what he looks like, have you?

Mark Billingham: Not really. I briefly described him in the first book, but when it was the twentieth anniversary of Sleepyhead and there was a new edition, I took it out. There’s no big description of him because that’s the readers’ job – to put the flesh on the bones. I don’t really describe any of the major characters – I don’t need to because I know what they think and I’m looking at the world through their eyes.

Over the 19 Thorne books, how have you noticed yourself change with him?

Mark Billingham: Well, obviously there’s the age thing… I started ageing him in real time and then stopped because I was running out of road very quickly… When I started writing about him, I stupidly made him the same age as me. So, I made the decision that even if it’s a year between books, it doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a year older – there’s not a year between cases… The next book might start two months after the last one finished. He’s not ageing as fast as I am, but we’re broadly in the same area.

How much of you is there in Thorne?

Mark Billingham: Not that much – not as much as there is in Declan Miller, who is much more like me, because of his comedic instinct. Thorne doesn’t have that, and I wouldn’t want to do what he does, but I’d quite like to have a pint with him and talk about Hank Williams all night. So, apart from our taste in music and our support for an ailing football team…

Although you support different teams…

Mark Billingham: Yeah – I’m Wolves and he’s Spurs.

How easy do you find it to come up with new plots, twists and scenarios for your books?

Mark Billingham: It’s not easy, but something always turns up. I think writers that have been doing it a long time – especially a series – live in fear that we’ve already spunked away our best ideas. Maybe we peaked at book ten… Touch wood, I don’t think that’s the case – I think the new book is as good as anything I’ve ever written, and long may that continue. But in terms of the big ideas and the big hooks… you can’t just pull them out of a hat, like a rabbit. It’s not really about that for me anymore – there’s no great hook in the new book, like there was with Sleepyhead or Scaredy Cat, but there are shocks and surprises. There’s not an elevator pitch that will make people go ‘ooh’ – it’s much more about character.

‘I think the new book is as good as anything I’ve ever written, and long may that continue’

It’s such a cliché to say, ‘character comes from plot, and plot comes from character,’ but it absolutely does. Thorne changes book on book, but in the course of this book he changes a lot. By the end of it, he’s very different than he was at the beginning because he’s seen and become aware of some very disturbing stuff.

Do you still enjoy writing new books, or do you get apprehensive?

Mark Billingham: I enjoyed this one a lot because I’d had two years off, writing the Declan Miller books, so I couldn’t wait to get back to Thorne. In the past, I might’ve had a year off to write a standalone and come back fired-up, but, after two years, I was fired-up and a bit apprehensive… It took a few weeks until I went, ‘There he is…’

I was writing chapters and thinking, ‘That’s Miller’s voice… what I am doing?’ It took a couple of weeks to get back inside Thorne’s head.

Miller is much lighter – don’t get me wrong, I love writing him, and I’m currently writing book number three – but it’s nice to be able to have a change of pace, take a breath and not worry if I’m thinking of a stupid joke because it just goes in… I think of a stupid joke for Thorne sometimes, but I can’t put it in because he wouldn’t say it…

My first instinct is always comedic – if someone tells me something, I’m looking for a joke, even when something tragic happens. I’ve become obsessed with jokes as a coping mechanism in the face of really dark stuff.

We’re not giving away any spoilers for What The Night Brings, but we can say it’s got some shocks in it…

Mark Billingham: It’s the first time in 25 years that I’ve had to write a note at the back of the book saying, ‘Dear reader, I beg you, please don’t let on what happens at the end…’

We all hate spoilers, and we all live in fear of a review giving something away, but there are some big reveals in this book, and I want them to stay hidden until the end. I want it to be like a kick in the teeth… It’s a different book for me, because, if you’re writing police procedurals, which I am, broadly speaking, you can’t do it anymore without tackling certain issues – it’s become a different ball game.

‘We all hate spoilers, and we all live in fear of a review giving something away, but there are some big reveals in this book, and I want them to stay hidden until the end’

I saw how some American crime writers changed after George Floyd – the police were no longer the good guys, and when they arrived on the scene, people didn’t want to see them. The new book is my reaction to Sarah Everard and that kind of stuff…

We can say that the book starts with the murder of four police officers, and it deals with some of the issues that have led to the police being under intense scrutiny, like the murder of Sarah Everard…

Mark Billingham: That was so shocking – not just the case but the general figures. There are enough coppers on suspension at the moment to police a small town. I was getting quite worked up writing the book, as I was looking at some of the facts and figures and going, ‘Jesus – this is absolutely horrendous.’

Sarah Everard was the starting point for the new book – I knew that was what I wanted to write about. Not that case specifically, but about the changing attitudes towards policing. It’s no longer about the one bad apple… it’s about an awful lot of bad apples. Once an official report says the Metropolitan Police are racist and misogynistic, you say: ‘What the hell?’, and you’ve got to write about it. You can’t just write about jolly coppers solving murders anymore.

That said, it’s important to point out that I’m not writing polemics – I’m not interested in tub-thumping, and I haven’t got an agenda. I’m still trying to write an entertaining and commercial crime novel, but that issue was bubbling away in the background.

Thorne is a detective, but I also wanted to write about the mood on the street amongst uniform coppers.

It’s not the first time you’ve written about contemporary issues – Love Like Blood tackled honour killings…

Mark Billingham: To avoid an issue would mean that you end up writing a cartoon – it would be so egregious to not write about it. I’m not lifting things directly from the news, but you’ve got to reflect attitudes and what’s happening in the world.

I still have nothing but admiration for the good coppers, who do an incredibly difficult job – it’s certainly a job that I could never do – but I’ve got nothing but disdain and hatred for the bad ones.

Writing crime novels seems like it’s become the fashionable thing to do. We’ve seen Richard Osman, Richard Coles and Richard Madeley – all the Richards – among others – try their hand at crime fiction. Why is there a trend for it?

Mark Billingham: I think in a number of cases they’re approached by publishers who go, ‘How do you fancy writing a crime novel?’ Or, without mentioning any names, ‘How do you fancy putting your name on the front of a crime novel that somebody will write for you?’

As a long-established crime writer, how does that make you feel?

Mark Billingham: I’ve got no issue with celebrities writing crime novels – Richard Osman’s books are great – and there are plenty of people who are famous for other things writing good crime novels, but there are celebrities who aren’t writing them, but, quite disgustingly, have their names on the front of them. That really pisses me – and every writer I know – off.

I don’t mind books being ghost written if the celebrity in question fesses up to it and is honest about it, but the vast majority of them aren’t. They’ll go on TV and talk about how much they enjoyed writing the book.

‘I’ve got no issue with celebrities writing crime novels, but there are celebrities who aren’t writing them, but, quite disgustingly, have their names on the front of them. That really pisses me off’

It’s a terrible trend and it’s not just the places in the bestseller lists they’re taking up – it’s places at festivals that other writers could be doing.

Have you read anything good recently?

Mark Billingham: Yes. My new crime writing crush is a writer called Dominic Nolan – he is absolutely fucking brilliant. He makes you want to give up. His last two novels, Vine Street and White City, are unbelievably good. He doesn’t write a book a year, like the rest of us hacks, but he’s phenomenally good. I’ve just read the new Ian Rankin book [Midnight and Blue], which is great. He’s still knocking it out of the park after however many books.

But I put everything to one side if there’s a new Beatles book to read. There are so many books I should be reading, but if there’s a book about The Beatles…

What The Night Brings is published on June 19 (Sphere).

www.markbillingham.com